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#1 ARCHIVED POSTS FROM
SPECIAL EDUCATION FOLDER:  FULL INCLUSION
OCTOBER 30, 1994 - JULY 30, 1995
FILE NAME:  SPEDFIN1.TXT
52 PAGES

Subj:  Full-inclusion
Date:  94-10-30 00:49:49 EDT
From:  CherylM512

I am a regular education, primary teacher.  For the last three years, I have
had from 2-4 severely disabled children included in my classroom.  I started
with the children in 1st grade, moved to 2nd grade, and now have them in 3rd
grade.  The special ed. teacher and I now have our rooms next to each other,
and have formed a team that has worked quite well for us.  I'm interested in
knowing what others are doing in the area of full-inclusion and how it's
working for you.  Thanks, CherylSubj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  94-11-01 00:07:55 EDT
From:  JohnE86469

I am a current gradute student at Hunter College in Manhattan. I am recieving
training to get my masters in Inclusion of  severe disabilities. I would like
to see what you are doing in your classroom and can maybe offer suggestions
of the new practices now being taught.Subj:  inclusion study
Date:  94-11-01 02:40:35 EDT
From:  HaganT

Cheryl - I am beginning a project on inclusion.  Would you be willing to
participate in a week long survey?Subj:  Inclusion delivery
Date:  94-11-06 15:30:49 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

I am interested in starting a dialogue with anyone interested in inclusion.
I am in a district that is trying several different delivery models for
inclusion.  I have taught, as a special educator, in a regular classroom
full-time with another teacher and my full-time aide.  Currently, I am
coordinating an inclusive elementary school where we have students included
K-6.
There are a variety of ways of meeting the students' needs and I would like
to hear how others are doing it.   Let me know how you're doing it and if I
can be of any help.  I have lots of questions and am always eager for
information.

ChrisSubj:  Re:Inclusion delivery
Date:  94-11-06 17:48:37 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

I'm a mom with a DS child in 7th grade.  He has been included now for the
third year.  He has gone the gamut from full exclusion to full inclusion.  He
has had some good teacher adaptations, and some less successful ones.  I
would be willing to give you some tips on what has worked for him.
Behaviorally, there hasnt been much need for adaptations, and his IQ is 72,
so he was a fairly easy model, but adaptataions are adaptations.  Let me know
if I can help!  I LOVE to see interested teachers!  Good for you.Subj:
Re:Inclusion delivery again
Date:  94-11-07 22:26:40 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Karen-
I would really like to hear about what has been successful with your child.
You can post it here or send it to me. Let me know what would be best for
you.
Also, thanks for the kind words.  You would be surprised how much a little
encouragement will fire up teachers.
Thanks again.
ChrisSubj:  Re:Inclusion delivery again
Date:  94-11-09 22:23:14 EDT
From:  G Stamm

I am a mother of an eight year old boy who has DS.  He currently is in second
grade and has been fully included since kindergarten.  He is doing very well
but we have had to travel a rough road to get to where we are now.  Our
school district is still trying to set up a successful program for full
inclusion.  If you have any suggestions on what I can do to move them along,
it would be greatly appreciated.  The school district is reluctant at this
point, but we have found success for our son by working only with his school
team .

Thanks,
Vickie
Subj:  Re:Inclusion delivery
Date:  94-11-10 18:45:44 EDT
From:  JohnE86469

very intereted in a dialogue, I am training to be an inclusion facilitator
based in NYCSubj:  Re:Inclusion delivery again
Date:  94-11-10 21:54:44 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Vickie-
First, may I applaud you on your efforts on behalf of your son.  It's hard to
say.  Inclusion is becoming a really touchy area with a lot of people
depending on their experience with or notion of it.  The most important thing
you can do is COMMUNICATE.  Be persistent and talk with all the people you
can about what you are being told.  We are in the process of creating an
inclusive school and I find communication to be so important.  Be informed of
what your rights are, focus on the needs of your child and let the school
know that you want to work with them and I think you will have a good
foundation for a program that will benefit your son.  All GOOD (i.e. good at
meeting the needs of the students they serve) inclusion programs all look
different because they are fashioned to meet the needs of their particular
population.  Good luck.  Let me know if I can help.
ChrisSubj:  Re:Inclusion delivery
Date:  94-11-10 21:56:27 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

John-
Just posted a message to Vickie.  Look at that and I'll tell you anything I
know that might help.
ChrisSubj:  Re:Inclusion delivery
Date:  94-11-11 00:22:43 EDT
From:  PFORDEN

From:  pforden
To:  John

I have a lot of experience as an advocate for inclusion in urban schools
(Chicago and Denver).  I guess that it is really important to recognize the
many strengths of urban folks/communities in relation to diversity.  It can
make it way easier.  But not always.

Also, I wonder about the word "full"  We include, or we don't.  We
individualize.  We have zero reject.  We give kids what they need.  "Full"
can so often raise red flags for no reason...Subj:  Re:Inclusion delivery
Date:  94-11-11 01:04:03 EDT
From:  SusanS29

I agree. The only real inclusion is full inclusion. That's what distinguishes
it from "mainstreaming," where the child is *not* necessarily in the regular
classroom all day. The fact that the term "mainstreaming" covers such a broad
spectrum is why the term "inclusion" is needed.

I don't think "full inclusion" is helpful; it suggests that "less-than-full
inclusion" is also acceptable, and when the people really mean inclusion,
it's redundant.Subj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  94-11-12 03:32:41 EDT
From:  SRREP

I'm an elementary music specialist involved with inclusion without adequate
support. How are your music teachers supported in the inclusion model - do
they have time allocated to meet with others, reduced class sizes,
paraprofessionals? I'm also a registered music therapist but have not found a
way to get my services funded. How is music therapy funded in schools?
Respond e mail. Subj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  94-11-12 18:16:24 EDT
From:  SusanS29

I have degrees in both music and special education, and I've never seen music
therapy funded in the schools. Public schools aren't theraputic institutions,
and in fact there would be all sorts of legal problems with providing
anything classified as "therapy." Even in special education, the emphasis is
on education.Subj:  re: inclusion
Date:  94-11-13 10:53:54 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

We are trying to get together an Inclusion Chat for Thursdays at 10:00PM EST
in the room HealthChat.  Please try to attend!  We would like to stick to the
topic of getting the school year underway for those that are still struggling
in November, but all comments and suggestions are truly welcome.  Would love
to see teachers, parents, friends, advocates, lawyers, doctors, everyone!
Please come, or Email if that time is bad for you, so we can try to
accomadate everyone if we can!  Thanks to all!Subj:  Inclusion Delivery
Date:  94-11-13 13:05:42 EDT
From:  CoTeachNet

Unfortunately when a district starts up an inclusion program and then doesn't
follow through on teacher training or special education assistance in the
classroom, often specialists are left with no other choice than to resort
back to pulling out the students more often.  As an LD teacher with 6 years
experience in the REI/inclusion delivery model, my colleagues and I have
experimented with various ways to meet the needs of the children in the
classroom.  So when the district pulls back the assistance it once had, and
we scream as much as we can (as teachers -we have little voice), and still
don't get the help we need, we must reassess and do what we have to, to meet
the needs of the children -even if that means going back to "square one".  I
hate it, but what are we going to do?  I have even told the parents at the
last conference that we were understaffed and would have to go back to more
pull out and they just said, "Well, do whatever you need to do."  I wanted
them to get mad!  I feel so defeated. Parents, we need you to scream and yell
because, as teachers, we are so powerless to help your children.
Candy @ CoTeachNetSubj:  Re:Inclusion Delivery
Date:  94-11-13 15:24:26 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Yes, I agree. Inclusion without support isn't inclusion. It's dumping.
Sometimes, Candy, I wanted to reach across the table, and grab a parent by
the throat and shout "Wake UP! They'll listen to YOU!" of course the other
staff members at the IEP would have stared...Subj:  Re:Inclusion Delivery
Date:  94-11-13 16:58:18 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Candy,
I hear you!  I wish my sons teachers would admit they need help--only one
this year has.  That gives me the opportunity to make the administration
support his teachers.  Its the ones who feign knowledge they dont have that
make it tough for me.  I recently congratulated the one teacher for having
the guts to admit he needed help with my son.  God knows I'VE needed help
from time to time.  Parents and teachers need to support each other to be
successful.  Teachers need to feel that its okay to make mistakes (parents
do), as long as they are genuinely trying to teach the child.  The wheel has
already been invented, and its time for administrators to start looking for
the pieces to build their own programs to suit their own kids and staff.
Bless you, and don't give up the ship!Subj:  Re:Inclusion delivery again
Date:  94-11-15 14:51:31 EDT
From:  G Stamm

Chris
Inclusion does look so different.  In our situation, there is one other
second grade class and a SD class next to his classroom.  What they do during
the day is take several kids from each of the second grade classes and bring
them into the SD class and teach subjects like science, health or social
studies to the kids.  When I first heard of this model, I wasn't so sure this
would work for my son because he would be having up to two or three teachers
during the day, depending if he was selected to go to another classroom.  As
I saw this model in action, I realized that this was an excellent way to
teach for all children.  It seems to break up the day and all kids are eager
to be selected to go into the SD class for instruction.  My son is learning
how to move to many different instruction models within the classroom and
comes home with exciting stories about what he had done in school.  This year
he is excited to go to school every day which is mostly due to his wonderful
teacher who understands the value of inclusion and sees the positive benefits
for all kids.  She naturally modifies lessons for my son, which is not
difficult for her because she teaches all her kids at the levels of where
they are.  She is making this year a fabulous one for both my son and for us
as parents.
VickieSubj:  Re:IMusic therapy
Date:  94-11-16 15:00:48 EDT
From:  ASTROVE

To SusanS29: Come to maryland, where our county funds a program that includes
a fabulous music therapist-she does indeed educate by teaching kids to
respond to music-and it was through the muisic therapist that myu three and a
half year old first was able to say his name. Some kids really do respond to
music therapy-I don't know where you got the idea county's don't fund
therapy. They fund PT, OT, and Speech, and if the kids have severe emotional
disturbances, they fund placements encluding psychological therapy-(PS our
music therapist is not at a school with inclusion and I couldn't care
less.)Subj:  Re:IMusic therapy
Date:  94-11-16 19:28:28 EDT
From:  SusanS29

I can only speak for where I am, of course. Here they shy away from the word
"therapy." I'm thinking of a more old-fashioned view of music therapy, one
that was really used for psychological education. It sounds as if you're
using music for one more way to communicate, and I think it's a *dazzling*
idea. What they shy away from here is any sort of "psychological"
therapy.Subj:  Re:IMusic therapy
Date:  94-11-18 01:10:44 EDT
From:  SPazan

Inclusion of therapy is handled in my area by an agreement between County
Mental Health and the San Diego Unified School District.  The collaboration
is far from perfect but it does enable psychiatric care for emotionally
disturbed teens.Subj:  Re:IMusic therapy
Date:  94-11-18 20:10:58 EDT
From:  SusanS29

    I'm glad to hear that. I taught special education here for years, and --
even when I had a classroom of children labeled emotionally disturbed -- not
one of them was in any kind of therapy! The parents rationalized that the
special education eliminated the need, but I wasn't a therapist--I was a
teacher. It *wasn't* adequate, and I thought the parents were quite foolish.
If the school district organizes a collaboration as you describe maybe it
will get the message across that the schools really can't do everything,
especially when the problems are severe.Subj:  Self-Esteem and inclusion
Date:  94-11-19 22:25:43 EDT
From:  Rufus36201

I am a self contained secondary teacher in Arlington, Va. I would like to
talk to any teacher who has students with learning disabilities in their
"regular" class. Please write to Rufus36201. I want to know if full-inclusion
is having a possitive or negative effect on students with L.D.

Thanks!!!Subj:  Inclusion
Date:  94-11-20 14:54:30 EDT
From:  MomJeanie

     I've read about inclusion in several articles and AOL e-mail.
     I want to know specific instances of success and failures from those of
you out there who have experienced it.
     Also, what do we do if our district continues to be mute on support,
inservices, etc?
     Can the regular classroom teacher continue to teach 36 students with
some of them severely learning handicapped? I think not! However, I'd like to
hear from someone about how it worked for you. Our already over-worked
teachers may have to do just that.
     I am a Special Day Class teacher for 4-6th graders who have Severe
Learning Disabilities. Inclusion looms full on the horizon in our district.
We teachers in our school are curious. My principal has asked me to make a
presentation on inclusion at a staff meeting, probably in December or early
in 95.
     I look forward to hearing from you!

     Thanks, Jeanie


Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-20 15:58:40 EDT
From:  SusanS29

     I think the thing your district has to watch out for is the notion that
all children should be fully included under all circumstances. Particularly
in the case of some learning disabled children who need highly specialized
techniques and materials, full inclusion may not be appropriate.
      I told one student I would stand on the table, tap-dance and sing a
song if he learned his next set of multiplication facts. That by itself
wasn't enough, of course--we worked with bouncing balls and all sorts of
specially-made materials. But he learned the facts, and I did the dance.
Could I have done that in the back of a regular classroom with him? Just
working with the ball would have been tremendously distracting.
     For my BD kids I would role-play various playground situations. It had
to be done behind a closed door, because if the bully they were learning to
handle without a fight had gotten wind of it, it never would have worked.
Also the children would have felt foolish without absolute privacy.
      I would also pick a day a certain child was having a "good" day, and
*I* would throw a tantrum--knock over my chair, shove books off the table,
stomp around, break my pencil and throw the pieces.
      The kids needed to see how they looked when out of control. Where am I
to do that if I can't ever pull the child from the room?Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-20 19:56:09 EDT
From:  SHIRL54

I don't like INCLUSION because nobody gets enough attention. The teacher has
to spend time to help,the ld kids and time for the regular kids.  It might
help the LD kids socially but  not educationally.  I took my son out of
public school and put him in a private school where he will receive the help
he needs.  He wants to learn but he realizes that the teacher doesn't have
enought ime to help him.  He has dylexia and should be in small classes.  The
school that send him to, only has 23 kids in the whole school.  After 4 days
his math has improved and he received a 100% on a test.  Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-20 23:04:34 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Shirl,
I'm glad you have found an appropriate placement for your son.  Parents
should realize that they know what is best for their child.  I firmly believe
that.  Inclusion is best for my child.  He has gone from poor behavior
modeling of his peers to learning in a classroom setting.  He has gone from
not knowing 1+1,to adding columns and borrowing in subtraction.  He has gone
from ABCs to 4th grade readers in inclusive settings.  It's not for everyone,
and dumping does not equal inclusion, but for some it DOES work.Subj:
Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-21 16:36:29 EDT
From:  G Stamm

MomJeanie
This is the third year my son has been included.  We live in California.  Our
experiences have overall been very good.  I believe that Inclusion can work
for everyone provided that this District gives the support that the teacher
and staff need at the school.  Our district is not at the point that I would
like to see them be, but they are moving slowly ahead.  Right now inclusion
works for our son because we are working with the school to direct them in
what my son needs and how he learns.  The support team and teacher are very
open which is the beginning to successful inclusion.  What I would be careful
of tho, is to make sure you are aware of your parental rights because, in our
case, the school district will have you believe that they are doing
everything possible to help you, when in accuality, they are still looking
out for what best suits them, as a district.  There are several models for
full inclusion and what we have kept in mind as our son continues through
school is what really will he need to learn in order for him to be a
contributing member of society when he gets older.  Is it really important
that he learn multiple or division when he is in second or third grade?  We
feel it is important that he learn at his own pace and feel his successes
along the way then that way he will continue to be excited about school and
learning.  Our son has done so very well and feels very good about himself.
He gets pulled out for resource time and speech, but so do many other kids.
It is just a bonus for him.  Our school has a very good resource program and
his teacher has a full time aide, which the district does provided to all
teachers who have included children.  The key to a sucessful inclusion is
that your childs teacher wants to do inclusion and is supported by you.  We
absolutely believe our sons teacher this year is wonderful.  She gives him
every opportunity to learn what she presents in class and modifies lessons
when it is difficult.  She has never put any limitations on him because of
his disability.  She sees him as a child first, which is important.
Inclusion is hard for a district to introduce to parents because it is still
so new that there is not a clear cut system.  If you are open to suggestions,
and also let the district and staff at the school know that you are willing
to sit down with them and make a plan, it seems to go better.  We let
everyone who is involved with our son that it is ok to make mistakes as long
as we can ALL work together and we have the childs best interests at hand.
We have also found with our son that both academic and social growth are
important, but if your child feels good about himself and the school setting,
academics fall into place.  I hope this has given you a few points to think
about.  If you feel inclusion is right for you, go for it because it does
benefits ALL CHILDREN AND ADULTS.  If we want our children to be included
when they are adults, shouldn't we start now when they are young and everyone
is more open.  Good luck to you and please let me know if I can help in any
other way.

VickieSubj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-21 23:51:09 EDT
From:  SusanS29

If we define inclusion as most of the day in a regular classroom but with
pull-outs as appropriate, then inclusion has been the *major* placement in
St. Louis County, MO, since about 1976.Subj:  Help by Thankgiving
Date:  94-11-22 00:05:53 EDT
From:  WH MEIER

I am a 6th grade regular ed. classroom teacher.  I am writing a paper, as
part of my masters in reading coursework, on LD inclusion.  I chose this
topic because our school is currently trying this, but I'm not pleased with
its progress.  I need to write this by this Thanksgiving Day weekend.  Any
input would be appreciated.  Thanks!   Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-22 01:02:39 EDT
From:  ColinG4013

However from what I've been reading, no one inclusion program is the same.
Every district appears to define it differently; as well as the U.S. District
Court. The Court has defined inclusion as the child is a full member of the
regular class with all related services..and no other placements for students
with disabilities.
This definition does allow pullout for specialized services that wouldn't be
appropriate in the regular class-such as 1on1 in a specific academic area or
P T etc. as SusanS29 pointed out; but not a separated program as resource is
defined (which then the student is a member of both programs.  However, if
the  services-aide time, technology etc. is not there, it won't work. I have
also found that many kids with reading problems have Irlen Syndrome-a light
sensitivity disorder which makes print hard to see (a related service).
Colin and MonicaSubj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-22 07:25:42 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Vickie-that message could've been written by me.  My son had the exact same
experience for two years--then we moved to Jr Hi -what a disaster.
Colin-you are trying to take the I out of IEP.  Inclusion is a buzzword-it'll
change some day.  whats important to remember is PL94-142 and IDEA.  My son
is entitled to "The least restrictive environment" and a "free appropriate
Public Education" and "inclusion" is the only way to do that so the district
understands.  He is pulled out for classes because I think he needs a better
math and reading program than the school provides (sort of like the gifted
regular ed kids).  That is my choice-not theirs.  He has an INDIVIDUAL
education program.  As it should be.  He spends 80% of his day in regular ed.
He learns more that way.  If he did not, I don't care what you call it, he
wouldnt be there.  Every school has a different program because every child
has a different need.  Actually, every school has several programs.
Inclusion is an overall teaching method.  You are saying that each case is
different and that isn't, by definition, inclusion.  You could very well say
Science isn't Math, so each teacher is doing their own thing.  An
understanding of the law is necessary to understand pull-outs.  There are no
absolutes with children. There never were.Subj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  94-11-22 11:25:46 EDT
From:  JudithO625

My son, age 6, has Down Syndrome and is in a regular ed 1st grade class.  The
class is co-taught with a reg ed and special ed teacher and my son also has
his own aide.  There may be other kids in the class with problems, I don't
know, but my son is the only one in there with a serious disability.  While I
am a firm believer in full inclusion, I also believe we have to do whats best
for each child as an individual.  My son needs 1:1 time with his teacher in
order for him to learn.  Just keeping him in the class while they discuss
things he doesn't comprehend is not the way I want him educated.  He
participates in 75% of what the other kids do, but at his level.  Other times
he goes into the computer room and types his journal entries on the computer
or is allowed to "play" math games on it.  He learns better from the computer
than he does by listening to his teacher lecture.
Eric is accepted 100% by his peers.  His teachers are enthusiastic and really
try to come up with new ideas that will work for Eric.  They have the support
they need in the way of therapists and adaptive technology.  While this does
not mean there is an endless supply of money available to them, they have
worked hard to use their resources to help all the children be successful.
This has been Eric's best year so far.  The work is hard but the teachers are
the best he's had.  He's been integrated in school since he was three and
started preschool.
I live in Suffield, CT.Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-22 23:53:41 EDT
From:  ColinG4013

My comments are from actual court cases in the U.S. If the court defines
inclusion in one way and resource in another way; and schools use a different
definition, problems can exist because of the interpretation of each
definition.
Many people want a separated program. However, what kind of environment will
they be in when they are adults?? Usually in the general population (at least
in WA). Many of the highly specialized programs for severely disabled people
have had serious cutbacks. The two institutions in Western WA are going to
close down because of court cases that require disabled people to be in the
general population; and the fact it is very expensive for the state to
support a severely disabled person. The cost of this support averages
approximately $30,000 in taxpayer funds a year per person.
People with disabilities are also complaining about the fact they have not
been given the opportunity to be productive in society. This means that in
order to teach disabled people how to live on their own as much as possible,
early education needs to be done in the general population to do it
effectively; and with the use of technology and other services that are
required.
Since it is public funds that support disabled adults (if not supporting
themselves), the public wants to know how the money is being spent. If the
public feels the people who receive support should be able to support
themselves, the will vote against tax increases. WA residents did this when
they voted for Init. 601, which is a tax rollback measure which requires the
state to explain how the money is to be used and any tax increase is based
upon the general population. As an attorney for the WA state school system,
most of the cases in the nations courts that I see violate the students
constitutional rights (most are leaning toward inclusion).
Monica Guthrie
Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  94-11-23 20:03:12 EDT
From:  SusanS29

All are entitled to their opinions, but please try to avoid making sweeping
generalizations, especially about any one individual. Colin isn't trying to
take the I out of IEP; he's looking at a different approach to it.

While I agree that there may be more than one good to educate children with
special needs, I also know we'll have the best, most helpful conversations,
when we avoid personal comments.

SusanS29-HostSubj:  Re:Inclusion Delivery
Date:  94-11-28 20:08:13 EDT
From:  SAntonetti

I am a graduate student writing a paper on the cost of implementing inclusion
as manifested in a budget plan for a district.  Very little research has been
done to examine the elements of finance for such a policy because of the
individual nature of inclusion and the fear that putting a price tag on such
services would encourage districts to avoid such a policy.  If anyone has any
thoughts or interests, please feel free to send me messages.  I value any
imput.Subj:  Re:Full Inclusion for the Deaf
Date:  94-12-02 21:54:37 EDT
From:  DonnaBragg

I agree with full inclusion in several settings.  I do not think full
inclusion for deaf students is appropriate.  I believe that deaf students
with an interpreter denys the students' right to direct access to his or her
teacher.  Any opionions???  Of, course this is also self-preservation for me
because I teach at a school for the deaf in New York, but we do have
cooperative programs with the local high school and vocational program.Subj:
Re:Full Inclusion for the Deaf
Date:  94-12-02 23:21:50 EDT
From:  ColinG4013

We have a son with a moderate hearing impairment and chose inclusion for 2
reasons. One, he needs the background in language and ways to communicate
with non-disabled people. If we chose to allow him to use ASL or SEE
exclusively, he probably would have more difficulty achieving success as an
adult; with jobs requiring a extensive background in high language skills and
higher education. Two, he also needs experience as a young child to see the
problems and frustrations deaf people have when communicating and learning
strategies to overcome these (naturally this is a two way street-for others
to communicate with him). Along with this is having others see the deaf
culture as a positive aspect in society rather than a negative one. I have
noticed it appears deaf people are afraid to be included because they might
interpret their culture being watered down and disappear-which it will not
do.Subj:  Re:Full Inclusion for the Deaf
Date:  94-12-02 23:32:31 EDT
From:  SusanS29

    From what I've seen it depends on the quality of the interpreter. I saw
one report of a child who could sign and who had an interpreter. The child
asked the interpreter to repeat what the teacher had said, and the
interpreter gave a very incomplete answer. The child realized this and asked
for more details, and the interpreter signed, "Oh, never mind. It wasn't that
important."

In fact, the information had been crucial to the lesson. That said, I think
although there will always be a place for special schools under some limited
circumstances, special teachers better wake up to the fact that inclusion is
going to become more and more common. In ten years, the special teacher most
likely to still have a job will be the one who can work with inclusion as
well as in a special setting.Subj:  Re:Inclusion Delivery
Date:  94-12-03 23:27:47 EDT
From:  Julia31528

SAntonetti:  The Institute for the Study of Developmental Disabilities at
Indiana University has done at least one cost analysis of the inclusionary
model in a school system in Indiana (I believe it was Clark County schools.)
You can call them at [phone].Subj:  Re:Full Inclusion for the Deaf
Date:  94-12-04 01:35:53 EDT
From:  ColinG4013

It also depends on if the interpreter is one who is registered by the state
and with the deaf community. Deaf people will degrade anyone who attempts to
be an interpreter (at least what they tell me, my family is included with
this group.) without the credentials.Subj:  Re:Full Inclusion for the Deaf
Date:  94-12-07 21:42:55 EDT
From:  DonnaBragg

I do believe that it is appropriate for some deaf and hard of hearing
students.   It depends greatly on the interpreter.  A while ago, I had a deaf
friend who was supposed to have an interpreter.  Frequently, the school
system didn't have someone because they could keep an interpreter.  They
would have hired anyone the student could understand.  Sometimes his mother
would go to school and interpret for him.  I encouraged the parents to fight
for their son's rights but they never did.  I strongly agree that this person
needs to be a Registered Interpreter for the Deaf.  Parents of fully included
deaf students need to make sure that the interpreters are in place.

I also admitt I deal mainly with studets that come to this country for a
better education, often illegally, at age 13 - 16.  There is not a great
amount we can do if the student has no langauage at that point.Subj:
Re:Inclusion Delivery/IEPs
Date:  94-12-14 09:55:15 EDT
From:  Duck98

Dear Susan,
  wow, thanks a lot - as a parent that really helped. We get to sit in one
IEP per year, we get to sit in a room with a bunch of people who all know at
least how to get through a meeting and push their own viewpoint. I can
scream, I can also get violent I don't think its going to help. One IEP we
have lasted 17 hours mainly because I would not give in on one point and I
almost lost my job over the time. You are getting paid to be there, we're
not. Why don't you get up and scream?
Duck98Subj:  Re:Inclusion Delivery/IEPs
Date:  94-12-15 00:19:10 EDT
From:  SusanS29

" We get to sit in one IEP per year..."

Nope. Any time the child needs a new IEP the committee can be reconvened.

"You are getting paid to be there, we're not. Why don't you get up and
scream?"

NO ONE is being paid to be there seventeen hours. Teachers aren't paid by the
hour; they're paid by the day, no matter how long the day lasts. If a teacher
filed for overtime they'd still be laughing about it two years later...

It depends entirely on what your "one point" was whether you should have
given in or not. I've seen parents insist that their child should have
one-on-one services. No one is guaranteed that, and in fact it might not even
be a good idea. As a teacher I would *never* "give in" on that no matter how
determined the parent was.

But I wouldn't have sat there for seventeen hours either. I would have filed
the IEP and carefully explained to the parent what her appeal rights were. I
would have helped her through the process wherever that would help, because
it would help *me* to have the point of dissension off my desk and on the
desk of my superior.Subj:  Re:Full Inclusion
Date:  94-12-11 17:03:31 EDT
From:  Marchissam

1st - I'm a special ed teacher in a true full inclusion setting.  My aide and
I spend our day moving from room to room.
2nd - I chose to be there.  (I turned down other offers fr this.)
3rd - No, I don't believe it's for everyone.
4th - Parents, don't be mislead by the zealots who would have you believe
that you have the final say in the placement and instruction for your child.
The law guarantees "an appropriate education", NOT "the BEST education".  It
is important to work with the school to develop an IEP appropriate for your
child.  Everyone on the IEP Team is important.  Don't discount what the
others have to say simply because you've been led to believe someone's
rhetoric.  Working together will net the best results.  The teachers and
staff really do have the best interests of your child at heart.Subj:
Re:Self-Esteem and inclusion
Date:  94-12-12 00:38:23 EDT
From:  NewPCuser

Hello, This is my first time on line so bear with me. I'm responding to the
self esteem issue. My son is 15 and I have
been advocating for him to be included for the last 7 years. The one thing I
can say about him, is his self esteem is good. His reading is pretty awful,
however he's working on it. He has a lot
of friends and let's face it school is only a small part of his entire life.
My attitude is we all eat at the same diner table, and he belongs in the same
classroom as anyone else. He is ADD, and is receiving supports in the
classroom. This didn't come about easily, however he is worth the time it
takes for me to advocate and if necessary become down right miserable when
the District doesn't cooperate. Grouping children together with disabilities
or problems doesn't give them any positive role models. Our society spends to
much time labeling - grouping and dividing. It would be refreshing if we
could accept our differances and work with them. Nice to meet all of you.
I've been sitting here really having a good time reading all this info.Subj:
Re:Self-Esteem
Date:  94-12-12 20:34:57 EDT
From:  DonnaBragg

I agree!  There is a lot of good for individuals with different learning
styles or different modes of transportation.  I have seen great benefits from
inclusion and have seen disastrous results when children are grouped together
because they are different.  I'm also sure it is beneficial for those who
speak a different language to be around the different role models.  But how
much academic learning is a student missing if they just have an interpreter
shadowing them all day?

I firmly believe that the only way inclusion is going to succeed is if the
teachers are willing to cooperate.  I have worked with many a teacher that
will not easily bend to meet certain students needs.  "This is the way I have
been teaching for years, I'm certainly not going to change now!"  I think we
need to work with these people to let them see the rewards first hand.
Certainly before 1975 all students were grouped together.  We must be careful
not to punish the teachers that are volunteering for inclusion.  I also think
we need to make sure these students have enough  support that they can depend
on if they feel it is necessary to get through some of these classes.Subj:
Re:Full Inclusion
Date:  94-12-17 00:39:13 EDT
From:  SAntonetti

Full inclusion as a term is misleading --not every child needs or should have
that experience --at all times.  Special education requires teaching
sometimes in the classroom, and sometimes in the community.  It must be a
constant assessment of the child's learning capacity and their ability to
interact with the world around them.  Inclusion is something I believe in,
but not immersion --it must simply be inclusion --attempted where ever
possible and appropriate --the tricky part.  We cannot simply make a carte
blanche rule for students who need individualized attention.Subj:  Requesting
info for lit review
Date:  94-12-19 01:54:59 EDT
From:  ATraiger

My name is Amy Traiger and I am graduate student in the special ed. dept at
the University of Florida.  I am currently working on a thorough literature
review on this topic (pro and con) and would appreicate any help.  Please
send to me @ ATraiger the bibliographic information of any articles or the
address where I can obtain relevant information about inclusion.  I will
gladly share a copy of my literature review with anyone who assists me in
this endeavor  :)  Thanks!!Subj:  Re: Full Inclusion
Date:  94-12-19 23:22:49 EDT
From:  Mickie G

I am so glad to hear all of the inclusion success stories.  I am also glad to
hear that there does exist a few people who don't believe in blanket
inclusion for all students regardless of ability or disability.  I am a
special ed. teacher in a residential pediatric nursing facility for children
with multiple (often terminal) serious, medical handicaps.  Many of my
students barely register above comatose and many more of the children are
"comatose."  The school district in which the facility is located is fighting
tooth and nail to get all of our children mainstreamed full-day into public
school, age-appropriate classrooms.  This is purely ridiculous.  None of our
children function even near age level, most are at 3-9 months cognitively.
They need concentrated, specialized help.  Many only attend classes for 90
minutes, after which they are exhausted from giving all that they have to
give.  Two of our students were briefly mainstreamed into the public school
system for 1 hour per day and during repeated surprise visits, we found our
children sitting off to the side while the rest of the class did their thing.
There is no need to take away from our children's time and dignity just so
the public school system can be "politically correct."  If our children are
medically stable enough and responsive, they are able to go back home with
their families and attend school in their own districts.  We are not trying
to cheat our children any type of "normal environment" or "normal
interaction,"  our classrooms and routines are very similar to those of any
public school classroom and we often have students from nearby schools come
visit our children.  As you can see, this is a hot topic for us, and I have
strong feelings about it.  I, like most teachers, only want the best for my
kids, and what's best for them and what's best for students with mild MR and
what's best for students who are deaf and what's best for students who are
gifted are all going to be different.  This is an issue which needs to be
decided on an INDIVIDUAL, case-by-case basis.

Thanks for letting me vent.    :)

MickieSubj:  Re: Full Inclusion
Date:  94-12-19 23:54:12 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Hear, hear! The most important word in IEP starts with I.Subj:  Re:Requesting
info for lit revie
Date:  94-12-23 00:38:45 EDT
From:  MomJeanie

I am a Special Education teacher for children with Learning Disabilities in
Los Angeles County in Southern California. I, too, am collecting material on
inclusion. Most of my material is at school since this is Christmas vacation.
However, if you would like me to send the names and addresses of the
publications in which the articles are printed, I will get them. School is
not far away.Subj:  Inclusion in Minn
Date:  94-12-26 19:39:39 EDT
From:  MLM MN

I am an elementary principal in Iowa working on renewing my MN license.  I
would like information on the state of inclusion in Minnesota.

Angie    C/O   MLM MNSubj:  Re:SOCIALIZATION
Date:  95-01-06 21:28:19 EDT
From:  Jkpdjp


Have/just/read/all/of/the/above/comments/with/great/interest./I/am/the/mother/of/two/sons/with/handicaps./For/a/year/I/have/also/been/an/advocate/working/with/parents/during/IEP/time,/advising/of/rights/and/possibilities/etc.//I,/too,/am/totally/ama
zed/at/the/lack/of/initiative/many/parents/have/taken./Even/with/my/support,/many/parents/seem/afraid/of/the/system./There/is/such/enormous/potential/for/so/many/children/with/only/mild/handicaps/to/be/very/easily/included/and/yet/it/seems/that/unle
ss/the/parents,/who/are/often/unaware/of/the/opportunity,/mention/it,/the/school/doesn/t/bring/it/up.


To/all/parents/of/young/children:/We/waited/until/our/son/was/17/until/suggesting/inclusion/(I/guess/we/were/like/the/parents/I've/just/described)./Anyway,/DO/IT/EARLY!/After/many/years/in/a/segregated/setting,/our/son/clearly/lost/the/chance/to/dev
elop/many/social/skills./Getting/along/with/high/school/peers/in/the/hallway/is/much/different/from/having/good/manners/with/the/adults/you've/always/been/surrounded/by.//Just/DO/IT/(appropriately).Subj:
inclusion and teacher aides
Date:  95-01-07 12:42:37 EDT
From:  Cathy GR

I am a doctoral student who is doing research on the employment of
paraprofessionals (teacher aides) in inclusive settings.  I have been
involved in the field of special education as a teacher, administrator,
college faculty member and consultant, but am really stuck on how to proceed.
I am interested in finding out how paraprofessionals are being used to
support teachers and kids in inclusive settings,  how teachers and
paraprofessionals are prepared to work together, what models are working and
what is not working.  Can anyone point me in the direction of successful
models/programs (or particularly ineffective ones for that matter!)?  Thanks
a lot for any help!  CathyGRSubj:  Re:inclusion and teacher aides
Date:  95-01-08 12:54:11 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Cathy-
I am a special education teacher and this year I am coordinating a program in
an elementary school where three paraprofessionals are working in the regular
classrooms full-time to facilitate inclusion.  If there is any information
about this that sounds like it would be helpful to you, please e-mail me (the
quickest route) or post here.  I am also interested in knowing what you are
hearing are particularly effective and ineffective ways people are making use
of para-pros in the classroom to facilitate inclusion.  In our district, we
also use paraprofessionals in blended classes (which I did last year).  Any
information we can share would be great.  Thanks.
ChrisSubj:  Re:Requesting info for lit revie
Date:  95-01-08 13:11:03 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Amy-
Like you, I am always looking for more information about inclusion.  Just
returned from MN ( a great source of information about inclusion) where I
visited the Univ. bookstore.  Got a new book I am eager to read: Curriculum
Considerations In Inclusive Classrooms: Facilitating Learning for All
Students by Susan and William Stainback.  Theirs are name I have heard a lot
in reference to inclusion.  I got another book last spring but all are in my
classroom.  If you'd like more info.  please let me know.  You can e-mail me
@bjbcaustic.  I lookforward to seeing what else youhave been hearing about.
ChrisSubj:  inclusion curriculum
Date:  95-01-08 19:52:13 EDT
From:  Ceecrane

I founded and run (on a volunteer basis) a nonprofit educational company that
markets a disability awareness curriculum that is now being used extensively
in New England, Michigan and California.  It is called You And I--Just The
Same, and focuses on internal, emotional similarities rather than external
differences.  For more information or to share ideas about the curriculum,
please E-Mail [e-mail].  ThanksSubj:  Re:inclusion study
Date:  95-01-08 20:03:04 EDT
From:  DBajc

Yes, I would be interested in participating in your survey. I am currently an
special education teacher.Subj:  Re:Requesting info for lit revie
Date:  95-01-08 20:16:25 EDT
From:  DBajc

Could you please send me your list? Thanks!Subj:  Re:Requesting info for lit
revie
Date:  95-01-08 22:09:47 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

I'd love to see all of you at our Inclusion Chat in Health and Medical Chat
room Thursdays at 10PM EST.  Lots of parents/professionals there to help each
other!  Please come.  Karen (host)Subj:  Inclusion and paraprofessionals
Date:  95-01-10 22:28:52 EDT
From:  Cathy GR

Chris  --Thanks for your reply.  I'm interested in hearing how this is
working our.  How many children are involved?  Also, did your
paraprofessionals receive any special training for work in inclusive
settings?  I'm hearing a lot of pros and cons of the use of paras and also am
hearing a lot of frustration about inclusion in general at workshops for
paras and teachers.  I would love to hear from you and explore what you are
doing and compare it to what others seem to be doing here in CT and
elsewhere.Subj:  Re:Self-Esteem and inclusion
Date:  95-01-13 04:05:42 EDT
From:  Teru2U

I am sdc CH/LH middle school teacher in an urban school in San Francisco.
This year I am trying an experiment which is so far successful.  My 11
students are fully included in a language arts/social studies class.  I team
teach with this teacher.  We have put in a lot of work but it has definitely
paid off.  My students stretch themselves farther than I have ever seen them.
The magic seems to be that they are surrounded by positive role models who
actually enjoy school and display appropriate behaviors as the norm.  If you
want to know more, or share some of your tricks, please write to me
(teru2u)Subj:  Re:Self-Esteem and inclusion
Date:  95-01-15 15:16:33 EDT
From:  DonaldC741

I am a parent that has a 16 year old hearing impaired son. This subject has
been of great interest to me in the state of Il. I have gone form deaf
schools to hearing trying to find what I thought was best for my child. But
as a parent listening to educators who thought they all new what was best for
a deaf child, we countinued to make the choices for my son. One day I stop in
flustration (nothing seemed to be working) and I asked him what he wanted. He
then told me how hard it was for him to be hearing. At that time I had him
involved in reg. Ed The moral is somtimes we need to listen to the children.
Maybe what is best in our eyes is not always what is best for child. What I
now have is a kid who does not fit in the hearing world or the deaf world
becouse we tried to make him in to someone he was not.Subj:  New Inclusion
teacher
Date:  95-01-15 19:36:45 EDT
From:  Tracey868

I am A special Education teacher. This is my first year working with a
multiple handicapped kindergarten. I have one DS boy who is beginning
inclusion. He has a full time aide with him all day.  He goes to the reg.
class in the Am and then comes to me for acedemics but goes back for special
( music, art..Etc..) The boy has ADD and does not have good behavior skill.
His mother wants more to be happening in the Reg. class but the boy does not
give signs that he enjoys the class. He does not participate and when the
teacher tries to include him he cowers away. The boy works for me in my class
and is progressing very nicely in my program. He participates and socializes
well. The mother is still unhappy of what happens within the Reg class
setting. If anyone has any suggestions on working with a inclusion
kindergarten program please let me know.
Subj:  Re:New Inclusion teacher
Date:  95-01-17 08:37:26 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Tracy,
Please read my response in the Health / DS Folder.  Thanks.Subj:  shadow
teachers??
Date:  95-01-18 21:09:44 EDT
From:  Huntley974

Can anybody give  me advice or share their experience with shadow teachers
(or therapeutic comapnions).  Our son's speech therapist and the educational
consultant that we've talked with are both suggesting we hire one.  To help
further with his language development, and better his social skills with
other kids (he is very happy at school, but mostly stays to himself).  I've
really been striking out on this question across the internet it seems, and
really need to weigh pros and cons as it is quite expensive (B), and I don't
want him to stick out with his peers more than he already does if it isn't
that helpful (A).  ThanksSubj:  Re:New Inclusion teacher
Date:  95-01-19 00:12:42 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Tracey-
If the parent wants the inclusion to work in the kindergarten setting, and
you think he can succeed in the mainstream class, pursue it.  I would first
try to find out what it is about that class or teacher that makes him cower
or not participate.  What is it that you do that gives him the opportunity to
be successful?  Communication is all important.  If you and the other teacher
can support one another, that'll help.  Maybe the mother should come and see
what the child behaves like in the two classes.  Find out what it is that she
wants.  If you could do it another way (i.e.  other parts of the day or with
an aide he knows from your room)  maybe he could have the best of both.  Good
luck.  Let me know if I can help.
Chris (BjbCaustic)Subj:  Re:Inclusion and paraprofessiona
Date:  95-01-19 00:26:49 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Cathy-
Our program currently serves 8 students qualified as SDC (50% or more
modification) and 6-7 RSP (less than 50% modification) in a school of +/- 400
students.  I have three paraprofessionals and training is ongoing.  I try to
keep in close sontact with all the teachers and my paraprofessionals.  I am
in all the classrooms very frequently (daily if possible).  I meet with my 3
parapros weekly on Monday mornings to discuss concerns and work through
material.  It seems to be working out well.  I would like to hear some of the
feedback you are getting as I am also doing inservicing within our district
for parapros and teachers.  CA is probably having as much difficulty as
anywhere getting it going.  Our school, called an inclusion school, is the
pilot for our district.  Speaking at a local advocacy group, I was really
astonished at the horror stories I was hearing.  It made me want to take them
all back to our school and say, "See, it can work."  It's amazing to hear
what some people will stretch and try to call inclusion.  I guess it's been
most important at our school for everyone to have input.  It's really a team
approach.
Let me know how I can help.
ChrisSubj:  Re:New Inclusion teacher
Date:  95-01-19 00:12:42 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Tracey-
If the parent wants the inclusion to work in the kindergarten setting, and
you think he can succeed in the mainstream class, pursue it.  I would first
try to find out what it is about that class or teacher that makes him cower
or not participate.  What is it that you do that gives him the opportunity to
be successful?  Communication is all important.  If you and the other teacher
can support one another, that'll help.  Maybe the mother should come and see
what the child behaves like in the two classes.  Find out what it is that she
wants.  If you could do it another way (i.e.  other parts of the day or with
an aide he knows from your room)  maybe he could have the best of both.  Good
luck.  Let me know if I can help.
Chris (BjbCaustic)Subj:  Re:Inclusion and paraprofessiona
Date:  95-01-19 00:26:49 EDT
From:  Bjbcaustic

Cathy-
Our program currently serves 8 students qualified as SDC (50% or more
modification) and 6-7 RSP (less than 50% modification) in a school of +/- 400
students.  I have three paraprofessionals and training is ongoing.  I try to
keep in close sontact with all the teachers and my paraprofessionals.  I am
in all the classrooms very frequently (daily if possible).  I meet with my 3
parapros weekly on Monday mornings to discuss concerns and work through
material.  It seems to be working out well.  I would like to hear some of the
feedback you are getting as I am also doing inservicing within our district
for parapros and teachers.  CA is probably having as much difficulty as
anywhere getting it going.  Our school, called an inclusion school, is the
pilot for our district.  Speaking at a local advocacy group, I was really
astonished at the horror stories I was hearing.  It made me want to take them
all back to our school and say, "See, it can work."  It's amazing to hear
what some people will stretch and try to call inclusion.  I guess it's been
most important at our school for everyone to have input.  It's really a team
approach.
Let me know how I can help.
ChrisSubj:  Re:inclusion curriculum
Date:  95-01-25 00:00:55 EDT
From:  DavidH816

I am currently working in Sanger, California as a Preschool Resource
Specialist (3-6 yr olds).  My program is homebased, but I do work with
children in regular preschool settings and kindergartens.  Please send me
information about this curriculum. It sounds interesting!Subj:  INCLUSION
Date:  95-01-28 23:39:50 EDT
From:  PattyL65

I am interested in communicating with other teachers who are working in
inclusion classrooms.  I am particularly interested in whether or not you
feel that this program is 'helping' these students.  I am a certified Special
Education Teacher who is currently involved in my third year as the Learning
Styles Specialist in three mainstream US History classes.  I am beginning to
do research for my Master's thesis which will be on the inclusion of
Emotionally Disturbed High School students and would appreciate any
assistance or guidance.Subj:  Re:Inclusion delivery again
Date:  95-02-01 21:37:37 EDT
From:  Misie

I am a certified teacher temporarily working in an elementary school in New
Jersey as a classsroom aide.  I team teach in classrooms that have special
ed. students who have been mainstreamed into the regular ed. classroom.
Grade levels that I am working with are 5th and 8th grade.  I would love to
hear from other teachers or "classroom aides" who are in similar
situations!Subj:  Re:Inclusion delivery again
Date:  95-02-06 07:27:57 EDT
From:  PamWilsn

There is a great group that meets on Thursday evenings in keyword Health, at
the Health and Medical Chat at 10pm eastern (7pm west coast) called the
Inclusion Chat that has great resources for teachers; middle school inclusion
is a common topic there.Subj:  Successful Inclusion
Date:  95-02-12 20:47:34 EDT
From:  GDQUICK

I am a regular ed teacher who has been fully including students with severe
disabilities in my classrooms for the past 13 years.  Most of the students
with special needs that I have had are those who have autism.  If anyone
(parents or professionals) need any help, I would be more than happy to
communicate with you. I have lots of information and ideas.  Subj:
Re:Successful Inclusion
Date:  95-02-13 07:53:20 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

GD,
we'd love to see you in Inclusion Chat Thursdays at 10 PM EST in Health and
Medical Chat.  We have several who worry about including autistic kids.
Thanks for writing.  If youd like to join us, please do.  If youd like to be
a guest speaker, please Email me. KarenSubj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  95-02-13 15:38:02 EDT
From:  Dacanay

would you be willing to send any data you have on the inclusion of 4th 5th
and 6th grade students. We are including up to 17 students a day with 7 full
time para educators We have a model that works for our school not the whole
district. The students have autism.CP.downs and self abusive behaviors.

Thanks!

Michelle  Subj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  95-02-15 08:18:37 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

You can read our logs in HEALTH/ Software/ Transcripts, or contact your State
Dept of Education, Bureau of Spec Ed for info packets.  Email me for more.
KarenL2888Subj:  NEW INCLUSION BOOK
Date:  95-02-16 23:51:09 EDT
From:  VanMel

I have just found a great book that may be of great interest to many of you.
It is titled Inclusion:  450 Strategies for Success.  The copyright is 1995.
There have been several newspaper articles in MN about the book and the
program.  The book guides the regular and special educator through the steps
to tailor an inclusion program to meet the needs of their school.  It offers
guidelines to making modifications and then lists hundreds of modification
strategies by subject area.  There are also suggestions for inservices and an
extensive appendix with forms that can be xeroxed to facilitate all stages of
the program.

We have had a  successful inclusion program in operation. This book has been
very beneficial to us.  I wish I would have had it 4 years ago when we set up
our program.  I really think that it is worth the price, whether you are just
beginning, or already have a program in place.

I purchased it at Mankato State University in  Minnesota at the
recommendation of a professor.  If you would like to order it the ISBN #  is
0-9644271-7-6  or there is an order form in the back of the book.  The
publisher is listed as: PEYTRAL PUBLICATIONS, PO Box 1162A, Mtka., MN
55345    The cost is $19.95  + $2.00 shipping.  It has a 100% satisfaction
guarantee.  It's well worth the price.
Subj:  Inclusion Info & Conf.
Date:  95-02-22 15:14:22 EDT
From:  JJuddwall

Hi All!  I am Jamie Judd-Wall, exec. director of Technology and Inclusion, a
non-profit org. in Texas.  It is great to hear of your experiences in
inclusion.  I'd like to invite you to contact me if you need help or info.
and to let you know that we are sponsoring a 2-day conference in September
called "Instruction, Inclusion and Technology" .  You are all invited to
submit presentations.  We have some awards to help off-set the costs of
getting here.  E-mail me to get a copy of the info.  Good luck, we're
thinking of you all!Subj:  Re:Inclusion Delivery
Date:  95-02-27 17:51:17 EDT
From:  RheaC

I would love to have a list of resources.  I am working on thesis on adaptive
measures needed to make it work.  Also looking for models in place now that
are working.
Thanks RheaCSubj:  Looking for info on schools....
Date:  95-03-01 12:34:59 EDT
From:  REPORT

I am doing research for the PBS series, The Merrow Report, a quarterly which
produces hour long documentaries concerning education in the United States.
Currently, we are focusing on special education.  If anyone has information
on schools that have either successfully or unsuccessfully embraced
"inclusion," please e-mail us at: report.

Thank you. Subj:  Re:Requesting info for lit revie
Date:  95-03-04 23:47:08 EDT
From:  BenA44

Are you familiar with JASH, the journal of TASH (The Association for Persons
with Severe Handicaps)? They are also ready to change their name.
Also, see 'Issues and Research in Special Education, Vol. 1', I believe
published in 92.  Good article by Ann Halvorsen and Wayne Sailor: Integration
of Students with Severe and Profeound Disabilities: A Review of
Research.Subj:  a survey
Date:  95-03-07 17:32:12 EDT
From:  CKN Morgan

Hello- I am a grad student working on a degree in special ed.  As part of my
field work I need to conduct a survey of teachers currently working in an
inclusive setting.  I have limited my questions to accomodate the busy
schedules.  Won't you PLEASE take a moment and respond.  When possible,
please respond by Email, I have a two year old who keeps me from the computer
at every opportunity.  I appreciate any input and wish you a great day... :->
CKN Morgan

1 What training did you receive on inclusion?
2 What training do you feel is most important?
3 How is special education viewed by the school?
4 What do you see is the role of the special educator?Subj:  THE ILLUSION OF
FULL INCLUSION
Date:  95-03-10 21:41:39 EDT
From:  LonnieJ269

You should read the new book "The Illusion of Full Inclusion",  published by
pro-ed, Austin, TX. While it consists of academic articles, it will raise
very significant questions for any objective reader.

Even the U.S. Dept. of Education is backing off their all-out support for
inclusion. Judith Heumann's Jan. 5, 1995, "concept paper" is being almost
entirely re-written because it was felt its proposed legislative changes in
IDEA would be dead-on-arrival in Congress.

We all need to take a balanced view. Remember the Heritage Foundation has
urged Congress to repeal IDEA because of the excessive cost to States and
local school districts. Where does everyone think all the money comes from to
pay for the highly expensive programs some people demand?

IDEA is a wonderful Federal law that gives a child the right to a free,
appropriate public education that balances "least restrictive environment"
with the "continuum of alternative placements". But the U.S. Supreme Court
ruled in the Rowley decision that this must be only an appropriate education
that provides "educational benefit" to the child, NOT the best education for
the child.

Both of the U.S. Court of Appeals cases quoted by advocates of inclusion
(Oberti and Holland) specifically mention "cost" as one of the factors to be
considered in placing a child.

If we are not balanced, we could lose IDEA. No one wants that.Subj:
Re:Successful Inclusion
Date:  95-03-10 23:31:23 EDT
From:  HOTEL1020

i am the mother of a 4 yr old who is probably mild
mr.  i want her to attend the  neighborhood public school  in two years,but i
don't think the school is
practicing inclusion---yet.  what steps would you recc. that i take to get
the ball rolling at this school?Subj:  Inclusion-It's a child's right!
Date:  95-03-10 23:31:49 EDT
From:  DebKunz

I'm really getting tired of the debate over whether children with
disabilities can be "fully included" in regular education classes.  Our
children's right to have access to our public schools and curriculum have
been systematically denied because inclusion is considered by many to be an
"instructional strategy or method".  Inclusion is not a strategy or method,
it's a civil right!!!!!!  Inclusionary options for children are often not
even considered or discussed at staffings.  Our children are not treated as
people who are worthy of respect.  They are stripped of their dignity by
condescending, maternalistic attitudes.  They are often inappropriately
labeled and treated as incapable, pathetic subhumans.

Separate special educational systems are big business. Those who are fighting
inclusion the hardest often times have a vested interest in keeping the
status quo.  That way their jobs and money will remain the same.  Very few
can present valid arguments against inclusion.  The current research supports
the fact that inclusive education is producing better outcomes for kids.

This movement is not another "swing of the pendulum".  We, and our children
will never allow the separate and unequal special education of years past to
continue.  This is a fight and we will not give up until we win!Subj:
Re:Inclusion-It's a child's righ
Date:  95-03-11 15:33:21 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Amen!  Inclusion foes often cite $$ as a reason.  Im quite sure that is why
citing money is illegal.  I have a child who costs my district far less in
the regular classroom than they were doleing out to big business, I assure
you.  You still cannot convince me that even an educational assistant, full
time, (which we dont even need for our son), costs as much as running a full
independant class staffed with teachers, administration to run the agency,
and the bus to timbuktu.  All you really need for some of the children to
benefit, is a teacher who is willing to adapt curriculum. And they are not
hard adaptations, or complex.  Just simple things like having a child who
cannot do one-to-one correspondence pass out the papers to the class while
counting them.  Or having a mildly retarded child learn what causes
earthquakes is two plates that dont fit, while the rest of the class learns
the names of the plates. When teachers and parents work together, everyone
benefits.  Teachers tell me constantly that they are better teachers for all
of their students when my son is through with them. I believe in inclusion.
I will continue to fight for the rights of inclusion.  (I also believe in a
parents right to choose as I cannot determine what is best for someone I do
not know).
It is true that what the law says is "educational benefit" and not best
placement.  It is wise to be careful in what you fight for.  I may ask for
twelve things, planning to get five.  I will give on a minor, non threatening
issue,to get a major war won.  Recently, my 7th grader was scheduled for
three study halls.  He now has one with a resource teacher helping him do his
homework.  That one is only three days a week.   We compromised. I said okay
to Study Hall with adaptations.  They said okay.  Communication is key to
success.  Letting the administration know that you know what the laws say
doesnt hurt either, if it is done in the context of "You know, I read that
according to state law...paragraph...that my son should have a transition
plan in place by... Can we work on that next Wednesday at 8 am?"  It really
only has to turn to war when all avenues have been exhausted and they are
blatantly breaking the law.  Then it is vital to follow the steps of due
process in order and to pursue Civil Rights complaints and State Dept of
Education Regional Reviews at the same time.  If you know where the help
lies, the district usually is unaware, and will see the writing on the wall
fairly quickly.
I have found that most times, the administration had no need to learn law,
and does not voluntarily do so.  The people who are held ultimately
responsible and the district solicitor do not have the initiative or reason
that we as parents do to learn the laws.  We must first educate the system in
order to adequately educate our children.  On with the fight!
KarenSubj:  Re:Successful Inclusion
Date:  95-03-11 23:17:51 EDT
From:  IzzyVa

Visit the school now.  Does it have an Early Childhood Class or junior
Kindergarten?  That would be ideal for your child to start and as a
transition.  My son was diagnosed with autism at age 2, started in a
self-contained classroom, but the first summer we tried him at a regular
child-care center, and hired some special ed students to help out (They got
credit for the time for a course of theirs.)  The teachers began feeling more
comfortable with him, in fact it only took a week before his teacher said to
me "He is more like the other children than he is different"  After seeing
his progress, we called an IEP meeting and changed his LRE to be the
child-care center.  He has been receiving services there ever since.
He now can sit during circle time, actually participates with the finger and
hand movements to a favorite song, and is starting to communicate via a
picture communication system.  We are starting to hear words more and more.
We want him to attend the Early Childhood program at our neigborhood school
next year, and have spoken with the teacher, have an appt with the principal
next week.  It is important to set up everything ahead of time so that all
the support services will be in place when your child starts.  You don't want
to waste precious time.Subj:  Re:Successful Inclusion
Date:  95-03-12 00:34:54 EDT
From:  SusanS29

I would get her enrolled in a prekindergarten preschool or such program that
combines her with so-called "normal" children right now. If you have trouble
finding such a setting I would suggest looking at Montessori schools (those
based purely on Montessori methods, not modified). They usually advocate this
kind of action and do it quite successfully.

then when you get to kindergarten your daughter will have a track record and
experience with children of varying types. Many mildly retarded children do
just fine in regular settings.Subj:  INCLUSION NOT A CIVIL RIGHT
Date:  95-03-13 21:02:30 EDT
From:  LonnieJ269

There is no law or court decision that makes inclusion a civil right. If the
regular classroom will be give a child the free, appropriate public education
that is his/her legal right without disrupting the education of the entire
class, and without costing so much it takes away other children's right to an
education, then the child has a legal right to be educated in the regular
classroom with necessary supplementary aids and services.

Everyone needs to be very careful not to mislead others. It might be useful
to put the actual language of the Holland and Oberti decisions on AOL. If you
think that would be useful, please put a message on this board.Subj:
Re:INCLUSION NOT A CIVIL RIGHT
Date:  95-03-13 21:22:18 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Oberti, though he won in court, considers it a less than perfect win because
he still feels the need to educate his son in private school.  I feel for the
man.  He went through an awful lot to get the district to see that his son
was not so different.  I have respect for his decision since all of his
children attend the private school.
Children are entitled to the least restrictive environment, starting with the
regular class, and moving progressively stricter to the appropriate setting.
Children are not necessarily entitled to what the parents consider "best
placement".  I. E. if you consider private school your childs best placement,
and the school offers an inclusive public classroom, it is not your right to
make the school pay.  Wording is very important here.  Since most children
are not offered LRE, usually its safe to say that children have a "right" to
what they dont currently have.  As schools begin to open classes, this may
change.  We can only hope.Subj:  Re:INCLUSION NOT A CIVIL RIGHT
Date:  95-03-14 00:43:53 EDT
From:  SusanS29

It's my understanding that there's only one way to *obligate* a school
district to pay private tuition. The  district makes what it considers its
"best shot," and through lack of progress (or even sliding back) it becomes
clear that the best that district has to offer clearly does not meet the
student's needs.Subj:  Re: Requesting lit review info
Date:  95-03-15 03:11:54 EDT
From:  Ty Reg

Some good places to start on a literature review would be the following:

TASH
11201 Greenwood Ave. N.
Seattle WA 98133
206-361-8870 v, 206-361-0113 tdd,
206-361-9208 fax
The 1994-95 Winter Journal of TASH (JASH) is all about school inclusion,
impact on classmates, etc. Available in many forms by calling
800-521-0600 x 2888

Titles in School and Community Inclusion:
Paul H Brookes Publishing Co, 1-800-638-3775, FAX [phone], PO Box
10624, Baltimore MD 21285-9945

IMPACT newsletter
Institute on Community Integration
College of Education
University of Minnesota,109 Pattee Hall,150 Pillsbury Drive SE
Minneapolis MN 55455; 612-624-4848

Peak Parent Center
6055 Lehman Drive
Colorado Springs  CO 80918
1-800-284-0251
719- 531-9400

SAFE - Schools Are For Everyone,
PO Box 9503, Schenectady, NY 12309,
Phone or fax [phone]

Good luck!Subj:  IDEA
Date:  95-03-17 07:20:32 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

The House Ways and Means Committee has passed legislation that will do two
things if the House approves it.  One is Block Grants for Education where
they will divide the funds by state, cut it 25% and then let the state
administer the funds.  Since most of our states do such a bang up job of
enforcing sped law, this prospect is scary.  The second thing that is of
concern is that they could place IDEA in the unfunded mandate catagory.  They
are seeking to remove unfunded programs.  There is an allignment in
Washington that as a rule all Democrats are opposed to these changes and all
Republicans are for it.  In other words, it is shaping up as a party lines
vote rather than a vote from the heart.  (Im a Republican, by registration,
by the way, this is not a political ad..just the facts)
The Washington political action committees are asking us to make our voices
heard.  Contact your Republican Senators in Washington and tell them what
Least Restrictive Environments, SSI payments, and/or Early Intervention
services have done for your family.  For those of us who have been on the
block long enough to remember when EI was an option and SSI was impossible
for a DS child to get, we urge you to write.  You do not want to lose what we
have fought so hard for.  Thank you.  KarenSubj:  Inclusion
Date:  95-03-20 21:49:43 EDT
From:  Battaile

My daughter is 7 years old and is a special education class for grades K
through 3.  I requested that she receive contact with the regular second
grade class at her last IEP and the special education staff relented to 20
minutes per day for art or PE.  Since September, she has received no time at
all in the regular second grade class.

I am furious to say the least.  My daughter excels when she watches and
learns from kids with greater abilities.  The special education class she is
in right now contains children with lesser abilities than her own and she is
not progressing like I know she can.  She is not severely handicapped.  Her
disability has been labeled as sensory integrative disfunction and possibly
mild mental retardation.

I am considering requesting full inclusion into regular education.  Is the
school district required to supply her with an aide?  I know that she cannot
do the regular coursework without assistance, but I am willing to work with
the teacher to adapt the education to her abilities.  She really needs
contact with regular kids and she is not getting it in the current situation.
Is it within my rights to request full inclusion?

We reside in Carlsbad, California.

Kris Battaile  Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-03-21 19:28:01 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

What is within your rights is to request that your daughter be placed in the
Least Restrictive Environment.  The beginning point being full inclusion,
(they have to prove she cannot benefit to go to the next stage) the second
stage being partial inclusion, partial segregation in the same building, the
following stages less than she has now.  I would definitely call the Dept of
Ed in your state and get a copy of PL 94-142 and read read read.  Whether she
gets a full time aide is another debate.  Does she need an aide to be
successful?  If so, you need to advocate for it as a service--much like
speech or OT.  If she doesnt need an aide, they still can adapt their
expectations of your daughter and adapt their curriculum to ensure her
success.  This is what I currently do with my son.  The point is there are
other things to learn besides academics in school.
Join us Thursday at 10PM EST in Health and Medical Chat for Inclusion Chat if
you are able, or Email me.  KarenSubj:  Inclusion/Sensory Integ/MMR
Date:  95-03-24 17:30:22 EDT
From:  Ty Reg

My daughter had a similar diagnosis in preschool; she spent one year in a
segregated sped preschool classroom that gave her nightmares and caused her
to close up with depression and react with anger.

After the one year, we integrated her into regular preschool and she
blossomed. She did however have private speech therapy and physical therapy
from a fine Sensory Integration PT. Reading A Jean Ayres' book SI and the
Child was helpful. But integrating her back into regular ed was the best I
could do. We did choose her regular ed teachers very carefully, and were
lucky to have classroom aides who were effective and also taught (by
modeling) beautiful manners and respect for other people.

If you need information, resources and support in your efforts to reintegrate
your daughter, please be in contact with the fine folks at the Thursday
evening Inclusion Chat, keyword Health, 10-11pm Eastern, 7-8pm West Coast
time, Health and Medical Chat.Subj:  Re:Inclusion/Sensory Integ/MMR
Date:  95-03-24 20:26:11 EDT
From:  Kenner 14

I absolutely must respond to TyReg's description of the "segregated SpEd
Preschool".  Your statement was that this preschool "...gave her nightmares
and caused her to close up with depression and react with anger".   As a
Speech Pathologist with a Special Day Class (Special Ed.) Preschool, I had to
catch my breath while reading this.  Please know that this is one parent and
one child's reaction to one Special Ed. Preschool.  I certainly hope that
anyone who is considering this type of placement doesn't take this as a
description of all Special Ed. Preschools.  My class is a loving environment
with much structure and routine.  The children in my class are happy to come
to school where they are accepted for who they are and where my goal for ALL
the children is that they will achieve 100% of whatever they are able to
achieve.  I love the children in my class; I respect the parents; and I take
my job and responsbilities to these families very seriously.  I'm sorry to
know that parents and children have the type of experience Ty Reg's family
had.  However, I must repeat, my class (and I'm sure others) are good, happy,
accepting places, working hard to meet the needs of ALL the children. Subj:
Re:Inclusion/Sensory Integ/MMR
Date:  95-03-24 21:18:30 EDT
From:  SusanS29

"Your statement was that this preschool "...gave her nightmares and caused
her to close up with depression and react with anger"."

Yes, I agree-- it is one parent's perception. However, we have no reason to
think it was in invalid perception. I don't think the poster suggested that
all special education classes would trigger such a response; on the other
hand it sounds as if perhaps the child didn't belong there.

I think a child who was in a special education class but who didn't really
belong there could be quite unhappy no matter how well the classroom was run.
I have had students in a special ed class who really didn't belong there, and
it is a tough situation for them.Subj:  Re:Inclusion/Sensory Integ/MMR
Date:  95-03-25 23:28:46 EDT
From:  Kenner 14

Susan:  Under NO circumstances, "belong there..." or not, should ANY class
(Special Ed. or otherwise) cause nightmares, depression and anger.  I'm
afraid, your response (as the host) to my post seems to me that you're
unaccepting of my opinion/comment.  I agree the post was the parent's
perception and I totally SUPPORT  and RESPECT her right to state her
perception of the situation.  Please support my right to also do so.  If I'm
uncorrect in my perception of your response, please let me know.  Subj:
Re:Inclusion/Sensory Integ/MMR
Date:  95-03-26 05:14:38 EDT
From:  Ty Reg

Let me reassure you all that had my daughter had a pleasant experience or
even had no harm been done, she would have continued in sped classrooms.

It is my constant hope that all other school districts and all other
classrooms are better than this one was when my daughter attended. There are
horrible regular ed classrooms, too, if that's any help...Subj:  GOVERNORS:
CHANGE IDEA NOW!
Date:  95-03-26 14:35:12 EDT
From:  LonnieJ269

The National Governors Association has requested that IDEA modifications
"should be enacted immediately to relieve some of the burdens imposed on
states and local education agencies". Gov. Howard Dean of Vermont and Gov.
Tommy Thompson of Wisconsin request a "Correction Day" in the U. S. House, a
day for legislators to "propose quick changes to laws they consider
particularly burdensome, outdated or unworkable."

The Sunday, March 26th ST. LOUIS POST DISPATCH has a column "Standards in the
Classroom" stating "Full inclusion - whereby severely behavior-disordered
kids are to be mainstreamed in regular classrooms - when combined with
heterogenous grouping may well provide the final knockout blow to public
education."Subj:  Re:Inclusion/Sensory Integ/MMR
Date:  95-03-26 21:31:28 EDT
From:  SusanS29

"I'm afraid, your response (as the host) to my post seems to me that you're
unaccepting of my opinion/comment."

'Scuse me? I'm not allowed to disagree with you?

I don't think so...

My response wasn't as "host." I participate in the conversations here, and my
opinion holds no more weight than anyone else's.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course... and I am entitled to disagree
with it. And it's quite possible for incorrect placement in a special
education class to cause a child nightmares, depression and anger. Might be
the only *normal* response.

I'm a big fan of special education. I've seen it work miracles. I've been
part of those miracles on occasion.

I've also seen kids in special ed classes who really shouldn't be there. When
that happens, it really is devastating to the child.

That's my opinion.Subj:  Re:Inclusion-It's a child's righ
Date:  95-03-30 12:59:16 EDT
From:  Dls3

BRAVO !!!Subj:  Feds suggest changes to IDEA
Date:  95-03-31 11:57:20 EDT
From:  Dls3

I recently received an article from NPND  which outlines the U.S. Dept. of
Education  DRAFT changes proposed for the reauthorization  of IDEA.
Highlights include "The draft is based on five key principles: 1. Align IDEA
with state and local reform efforts. 2.  Promote high expectations and access
to the general curriculum in the regular classroom. 3.  Address individual
student needs in the LRE. 4.  Improve knowledge and training among  families,
teachers and principals.  and  5.  Enable states and  schools to use
resources more effectively".
Complete text of this article can be obtained through the National Parent
Network on Disabilities  [phone].
Perhaps many of us could get behind support for the positive changes outlined
in this article is titled  "FEDS EYE MAJOR CHANGES TO IDEA"
Subj:  Re:Feds suggest changes to IDEA
Date:  95-03-31 21:58:35 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Wow, Ive had a request for that article....can I get a copy?
ThanksSubj:  Re:Feds suggest changes to IDEA
Date:  95-04-01 11:05:48 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Who is "NPND?" Write to them and they will probably send you a copy --
probably for a small fee.Subj:  Re:Feds suggest changes to IDEA
Date:  95-04-01 14:15:11 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

From a previous post to another board:
Complete text of this article can be obtained through the National Parent
Network on Disabilities  [phone].
Perhaps many of us could get behind support for the positive changes outlined
in this article is titled  "FEDS EYE MAJOR CHANGES TO IDEA"Subj:  Re: New
Full Inclusion Program
Date:  95-04-01 22:31:38 EDT
From:  FDKachmar

I have been reading all the messages from everyone on full inclusion and have
gained some new insights.  Maybe someone could help us!!
I am a second year special education teacher who was asked to pilot a full
inclusion program with the fourth and fifth grades at an elementary school.
At the present time, seven months into the school year, we have been
successful.  All of my students are succeeding and have made great strides in
the areas of  academics and self-esteem.  My problem though is that I no
longer teach.  I spend most of my time modifying materials and assisting in a
role more like an aide than a teacher.  I am looking to know if this is true
of other models.  I have co-taught, with my regular education teachers but
this is not very often.  What are other special education teachers
doing?Subj:  Re: New Full Inclusion Program
Date:  95-04-02 01:26:30 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

As I see it, the role of Sped teachers is increasingly changing in Pa to that
of Inclusion facilitator.  Consultant, if you will.  My sons teacher was very
adept at coordinating reading with social studies and science with spelling
in the grades you mention.  Sounds like you really miss the teaching aspect
though, and that isnt good.  Maybe you should discuss it with your
administrators and find a solution? For what goes on in other states, we have
three or four sped teachers who are regulars at Inclusion Chat on Thursdays
at 10PM EST in Health Chat.  They will gladly talk to you! KarenSubj:
Re:GOVERNORS: CHANGE IDEA NOW!
Date:  95-04-02 07:54:41 EDT
From:  LonnieJ269

Everyone with an interest in the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act
(IDEA), the Federal law which provides the a child with a right to a special
education  ("a free appropriate public education" in the "least restrictive
environment" within a "continuum of alternative placements")  needs to
contact their Governor urging them to oppose the efforts of the National
Governors' Association to immediately change IDEA to reduce the "burden" on
the States.

IDEA provide the basic right to an appropriate education for a child with a
disability. Of course that creates a burden on the States. Before the
original Federal law passed (PL 94-142), some States were excluding children
with certain disabilities from the schools, ignoring them in the regular
classroom, or putting every child with a disability (blind, deaf, LD, SED,
etc.) in the same room (20-40 total students) with one teacher who could not
begin to provide the specialized and individualized teaching each required.

If you do nothing, IDEA may be changed to remove the provisions that give a
child the right to detailed evaluation (the Draft of the U.S. Dept. of
Education says too much money and time is being spent on evaluation) so a
child's needs can be specifically identified; to remove the provisions for
different categories of disability so States can once again put everyone in
one room; and most important to remove the provision that IDEA funds must be
spent on children with disabilities (the Draft of the U.S. Dept. of Education
would change the "incidental benefit" rule so IDEA funds could be spent on
others).

 The Federal Government is providing only 7% of the cost of special education
even though PL-94-142 called for 40%. If these funds can be spent on any
student, how do you think some States will spend the money?

Governors and those in the U.S. Dept. of Education may have good intentions.
But the road to a particularly warm place is paved with good intentions.
Subj:  Re:GOVERNORS: CHANGE IDEA NOW!
Date:  95-04-02 10:24:09 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

For those of you outside the Down syndrome community, please join us the last
friday in August on the steps of Congress to rally for reauthorization of the
IDEA as is.  We are formally inviting our congressmen back to Washington for
that day, the Natl Down Syndrome Congress convention is that weekend, They
have sanctioned it, and we are in the process of getting the required
permits.  If you are interested in online planning sessions, Email me or
SHerscher for further information as it comes up. KarenL2888Subj:  Re:  IDEA
Date:  95-04-14 18:56:01 EDT
From:  Ty Reg

I would be pleased to hear that local community activists are lobbying their
local legislators on that day also, to put a little local nudge into it.

It's rather disturbing to read about families losing access to early
intervention and infant support programs across the US, too.Subj:  Block
granting
Date:  95-04-15 09:41:36 EDT
From:  OmAtty

I would like people in states that have block granted to local school
districts to tell what their experiences have been with the program.
Nebraska is moving quickly to drastically change and cap spec ed funding and
is looking at the block grant model.

Specific examples would be greatly appreciated!

SusanSubj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  95-04-16 19:34:38 EDT
From:  MGeschke

I am an 8th grade L.D. teacher and feel inclusion needs to be based on the
individual child's needs. I strongly support having all of my L.D. students
in the regular classroom for the content area subjects (Sci. Social Studies,
etc.), but when it comes to having small group time to remediate and develop
compensation skills for reading, writing and math - I can't accept placing
all of my students in the regular classroom and providing them a "watered
down" curriculum so they can
su
ceed there. However, if I believe a student is truly able to be a productive
member of a reg. English class I am the first one to place them there. I need
to teach them to advance their skills using their learning styles (auditory,
visual, etc.)
When it comes to seeing severely handicapped kid dragged day in and day out
to regular ed. classes all day long and not getting life skills and some
basic academic skills (counting money) that will advance their independence,
I get sick.  Severely handicapped kids should be included when appropriate -
but not for the sake that they will be held back in society because they did
not recieve the appropriate education they need to be independent.
I guess I feel the goal of education for all students whether handicapped or
not  is to help them be productive members of society and to be as
independent as possible and emotionally healthy.
I am giving a presentation on inclusion at a state convention of mIddle
school teachers on April 28 - so please enlighten me if you think I am way
off base.
Sorry this is so preachy!Subj:  re: MGeschke
Date:  95-04-17 12:13:43 EDT
From:  Battaile

Regarding your posting.  I agree that full-inclusion or partial inclusion
should be addressed according to the needs of each particular child.  I can
also see how full-inclusion might not meet the needs of some severely
handicapped children.

The problem that I have encountered is that my daughter's school district, in
order to save hassles and money, places all handicapped children in a
segregated special education class regardless of the severity of the
handicap.  My daughter is very mildly retarded, if at all, and has trouble
with sensory integration that can make her "shut down" when she becomes
overly stimulated.  She is seven years old.  She rides a bike, plays with
kids in the neighborhood, swims, and is learning to play tennis.  But in
school, she is not integrated with the "normal" kids.  She is not disruptive
in class, she just requires a little attention in the academic areas of
reading and arithmetic.

I think that she should be fully included and sent to a resource specialist
for reading and math, but the school district doesn't seem to know how to do
this.  This year has been completely wasted.  The other kids in the class are
more severely handicapped, so the class has been learning the letters of the
alphabet (Katie's known them since age 2) and how to connect the dots.  There
comes a time with many handicapped children when they become emotionally
ready to move into a regular class.  But like you said, every child needs to
be assessed and placed according to their own needs.  The problem is,
however, that the school district often acts in a way that benefits
themselves first, and parents often accept the placement by the school
district because they believe that they (the school district) are acting in
the best interests of the child.  It is sad to find that the district is not
acting in the best interests of my child.

I could go on forever.  It is nice to hear from a teacher who is so
interested in what is best for the students.

Kris BattaileSubj:  Response to Re:re: MGeschke
Date:  95-04-17 21:55:40 EDT
From:  OmAtty

I have to say this after having spent a day with a client reviewing evidence
in a due process proceeding against her school district, which evidence
clearly established her case:

I am the parent of a child with significant disabilities.  She has been in a
regular classroom with no little amount of work.

I receive lots of calls and complaints from families who do not like what
their district is doing and know in their hearts that it is wrong.  Yet they
never take that first step to file a complaint with the state department of
education.  For example, what you said about all kids with disabilities being
put in a segregated setting is clearly illegal and courts have said so.
That's one of the easier cases.  But have you contacted a lawyer?  How much
do you want to change the system?  Yes, it is a hard fight, but we cannot
expect others to do it for us!  As someone once told me, if your kid were in
jail you would not hesitate to call a lawyer.  Is the wrong placement and no
educational benefit any less than jail for your child?  What about their
future?  Get together with the other parents.  Split the legal retainer, then
recover attorneys fees when you settle.  I know parents who have mortgaged
their house for their child's education and felt it was worth it!

Sorry to sound off, but the law is on our side!  Anything less than action
compromises our children's futures.

SusanSubj:  Re: Battaile
Date:  95-04-17 22:39:45 EDT
From:  MGeschke

Are you sure the mildly mentally handicapped label is appropriate for your
daughter? Boy, she sounds like she is doing great!  I would ask to have her
reassessed; I hate slapping labels on kids so young -when was she first
identified?
You need to be your child's advocate. In my district if a mildly mentally
handicapped child can "make it" and benefit from instruction in the L.D. room
or in a team taught L.D. /reg. ed class -we do it (we call it
cross-programing ).  I think some districts are more concerned about Labeling
and fitting kids into neat little categories than looking at the individual
child.
You know your child better than anyone else - you must go with what you feel
will best meet her needs.
I don't always agree with all the decisions parents of my students make- but
they are the parents and have known their children longer than I; they are
the ones who will watch the long term consequences either positive or
negative  for their child.  Without parental advocates there would be no
special education or individualized programs - so speak up and keep telling
the district what you want for your child - she has a right to succeed or
fail in an environment that will hopefully meet her needs. Let her try!
M GeschkeSubj:  Re:omAtty response
Date:  95-04-18 11:30:04 EDT
From:  Battaile

Susan:

     Thank you for your response.  I am definitely looking into legal action
at this time.  I have been a paralegal for 12 years and teach in the
paralegal program at the University of San Diego.  I have read the applicable
public laws and the federal code sections regarding placement.  I also found
a very good case on inclusion which you have probably read:
Oberti v. Board of Education (D.N.J. 1992) 789 F. Supp. 1322.

     I know that what my school district is doing is wrong.  I also know that
it is very difficult to fight a government entity.  My daughter has an IEP
next month.  I am going to point out the areas of her last IEP that were not
met and ask why a new IEP was not requested if she could not meet these
goals.  I also will ask the special education personnel to begin with full
inclusion with an aide, and continue through their continuum of options down
to a segregated classroom, and tell me why each option, short of segregation,
is not feasible for my daughter.  I have also requested that her social
worker and an education specialist from the state (both strong advocates of
inclusion for my daughter) attend the IEP.

     If I am not happy with the results of the IEP, I am prepared to proceed
to mediation.  Having worked in the law for so many years, I know what
litigation is like.  Right now I am going to proceed through the steps
towards litigation, DOCUMENTING EVERYTHING, in hopes that things will be
resolved to my satisfaction.

     Thank you for your input.    Kris BattaileSubj:  Re: M Geschke
Date:  95-04-18 11:40:31 EDT
From:  Battaile

Thank you for your response.

My daughter is currently receiving a full assessment.  We really don't know
what her diagnosis is.  Her neurologist says "Mild mental retardation ???"
She definitely has some problems with sensory integration, but she is
emerging from her sensory shell.  We were amazed and close to tears when she
took off on her bicycle one day without the training wheels.  It seems that
she waits until she knows that she can completely accomplish something and
then she does it.  We feel that Katie is ready for inclusion.  We also feel
that we should try it now while she is young instead of waiting until it is
too late and she is too far behind the kids her own age.  If it doesn't work,
we can always have another IEP and adjust her placement.
Thanks again,  Kris BattaileSubj:  Battaile
Date:  95-04-18 13:56:12 EDT
From:  ChatLap

I read your latest posting, and rec'd your e-mail, and was thrilled to hear
how prepared you are to get your child included to the fullest extent
possible.  I'm a volunteer parent advocate (for parents of children w/
disabilities) in R.I. and know that it really is in the parents' hands  to
fight for  the services their children need and where they should be
delivered.  Also, it is people such as yourself who will make the system more
people-friendly in the future, paving the way for those to follow.  Every
time I have another battle to fight I remind myself that I'm not only doing
it for my children (2 of my 3 children have disabilities) but for all those
children who will come after them.  And I know that every other parent who
fights for the rights of his/her children will ultimately be helping ME as
well.  So, let me applaud you and, if it helps at all in that May IEP, please
know there are so many others besides myself who will be there with you in
spirit! PamSubj:  Re:omAtty response
Date:  95-04-18 20:21:27 EDT
From:  OmAtty

Dear Kris,

You seem to have a good plan.  Good luck!  You might also want to have in
hand the questions that are the appendix to the federal special ed
regulations--appendix C.  And yes, Oberti is a great case; you're fortunate
to be in a circuit that takes special ed seriously.

SusanSubj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-04-19 06:27:40 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

I agree with the 8th grade teachers assessment of inclusion.  My son, 7th
grade, Down Syndrome, attends just exactly what she recommends for LD
students. He has all the regular classes, and resource for Reading, English,
and Math.  Sounds like that would benefit your 7yr old as well.  I design his
curiculum and modify it for the school.  No, its not my job, but it needs
done anyway, and I want it done right.  He seems to be doing fairly well.
Secondary schools are having a hard time adjusting to these "Inclusion" kids
who are just now hitting the upper grades.  All the training seems to have
been gearedto elementary levels.  Any thought?
By the way, Inclusion Chat is thursdays at 10PM EST in Health and Medical
Chat.  Wish you would all come! Its a great group.  (Teachers and doctors and
SLPs welcome!)KarenSubj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  95-04-23 18:33:23 EDT
From:  SusanS29

"but when it comes to having small group time to remediate and develop
compensation skills for reading, writing and math - I can't accept placing
all of my students in the regular classroom and providing them a "watered
down" curriculum so they can"

Her'es another LD teacher who agrees.Subj:  Re:inclusion and teacher aides
Date:  95-04-25 20:38:06 EDT
From:  BunkoB

I am a second grade teacher who is on maternity leave.  I have a chance to be
in an inclusion classroom with a spec. ed. teacher who is great and her aid.
Her children are ES.  She and I have worked together in the past, but not
within the same classroom.  Her children are smart, but have self esteem and
emotional problems.  I think it could be great.  Does anyone have any advice
or stories?Subj:  1st grade
Date:  95-04-27 02:05:07 EDT
From:  FishTE

Wow, I've just recently started using AOL and tonight I have sat and read all
of the 126 messages on full inclusion.  I have a 6 year old son with Down
Syndrome who is fully included in our neighborhood school in Kindergarten
this year.  It hasn't been easy but the results have been wonderful.  I'm
very nervious about his transition into 1st grade and would love to hear from
others in a similar situation.  I live in Southern California.  I am planning
to check out the Healthchat tomorrow evening and I hope to get to know some
of you out there with similar interestsSubj:  Re:Full-inclusion
Date:  95-04-30 17:47:36 EDT
From:  WENSURF

I am teaching in a full inclusion K.  There are two teachers in the room.  I
have 7 students with V.E.  The other K teacher has 15 students.  I feel that
we need help including all students.  Please send me your ideas.  Thank
you.Subj:  Re:Requesting info for lit revie
Date:  95-04-30 17:52:00 EDT
From:  WENSURF

ATraiger,

I am teaching in a collaborative classroom in FL.  If you have any questions
of how we use inclusion in our class please ask.Subj:  Responsible INculsion
Date:  95-04-30 22:32:33 EDT
From:  MGeschke

No regular education teacher can handle full inclusion alone; a certified
special education teacher should be team teaching with him/her full or part
time.  It is a disjuctice to the special needs children as well as the
"regular" students.
I am afraid with all the Inclusion talk that we will lose some of the
INDIVIDUALIZATION we fought so hard to get these kids in the 1970's.  We must
look at inclusion carefully and program it appropriately for each INDIVIDUAL
student.  Some students can do well with inclusion full time, others need it
part time.
We must remember that for ALL kids (regular, gifted and special needs) our
goal is the same: to help them reach their highest potential, be productive
citizens , become life long learners and be mentally healthy!
It just doesn't seem as difficult as we sometimes try to make it!
Mary Geschke (parent and 8th grade L.D. teacher)Subj:  Re: Responsible
INclusion
Date:  95-05-01 20:46:47 EDT
From:  Ty Reg

I feel very strongly that individualizing the support and accommodations each
student receives is very important.

Those on the inclusion team who is usually best prepared to provide this
insight are the parents, who know what works and what has not worked, as well
as what is most likely to do either in the future.

I have found that in about half the experiences I have observed, the regular
ed teacher can suggest supports that are more appropriate than the consulting
sped teacher, who may have had no experience with mainstream students showing
age-appropriate behavior that in a sped class would have a whole behavioral
intervention program written around it. As always, it depends on the
individuals more than the titles.

Irresponsible inclusion is called dumping. No one wants to see that happen -
but it might still be a better alternative for students than an inadequate,
inappropriate, non-individualized segregated program.Subj:  Re: Appropriate
Cert. of Sped.
Date:  95-05-06 11:06:01 EDT
From:  MGeschke

I was lucky enough to have graduated from a University that did not allow any
student to just get a Special Education degree; You had to double major in
Special Education and Elementary Ed. (grades 1-8); at the time the university
did this to assist its Special Education Graduates with having something to
fall back on when the "burn-out" of Special Eduation hit - but they had great
foresight. My regular education degree has been invaluable to me with the
Inclusion of my L.D. students. I had to do a semester of teaching regular
education and have teamed with reg. teachers since graduating in 1982.
I know the reg. ed. teaching methods and how to modifiy curriculm with my
special education methods.
I truly believe that this is a Must for all special education teachers - A
Special Education certification alone does not provide enough of a broad base
to adequately provide service to your included students.
I am thankful everyday for being made to have a double major in Regular Ed
(1-8) and Special Ed (K-12) Subj:  Re: Appropriate Cert. of Sped.
Date:  95-05-06 11:50:41 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Amen! and congratulations!Subj:  Re:a survey
Date:  95-05-09 19:26:45 EDT
From:  JenWip

I received very little "formal" training in inclusion, but was exposed to it
throughtout student teaching.
I feel my student teaching experiences proved to be helpfol when creating my
own program in ED
I feel the views are mixed.  some embrace it, while others feel it is doing
no good for special ed or regular ed students.
I see the it as that of a resource person and team teaching partner. Subj:
Re:Inclusion-It's a child's righ
Date:  95-05-09 19:28:13 EDT
From:  JenWip

THANKYOU!!!  i appreciate your insights!!!Subj:  Re:Inclusion-It's a child's
righ
Date:  95-05-13 23:31:33 EDT
From:  HOTEL1020

Have any of you had any experiences with Headstart programs?  good or bad,
I'd like to hear about it...I am the parent  of a 4 yr.old MR child  who is
trying to get her into a setting that will offer max speech and language
exposure for my non-verbal child, and the school system is  offering sped
classes with no verbal kids, or Headstart classes.......Subj:
Re:Inclusion-It's a child's righ
Date:  95-05-13 23:32:13 EDT
From:  HOTEL1020

Happy Mothers Day!!!!!!!!Subj:  inclusion
Date:  95-05-14 12:42:27 EDT
From:  GSLG

my concern with inclusion is that the teachers are considered first and then
the kids.  be careful in planning the program.  make sure it fits the kids
needs - not yours!Subj:  Re:inclusion
Date:  95-05-14 15:10:45 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

My son went to a Head Start Class about 8 years ago.  Since the object of
Head Start was to prepare kids who were economically or socially
disadvantaged to enter the public schools, it worked out very well. Each
program is different, so observe the class and determine if it meets your
childs needs before making a decision.  Good luck! Also, dont rule out any
other programs besides the two they offer! look around.  KarenSubj:
Inclusion Models
Date:  95-05-16 23:11:08 EDT
From:  Zarsha

   I am the parent of a child in a self-contained 1st grade class. His class
has 7 kids- 6 are classified LD (my son is also ADHD), and one is autistic(he
has a full time assistant devoted to him). The teacher, who is really
wonderful, team teaches with a reg. ed. teacher for science and soc. studies
i.e. they all go into the reg. class about 2 times a wk. and my son goes with
one other boy with an assistant into that same reg. class for math-also about
twice a week. They have music, art, lunch etc. with the reg. ed. kids.
   We just had my sons IEP meeting and the program for next year will be just
about the same. I want MORE INCLUSION in reg. ed. for him.
I'm trying to collect more information on true collaborative classes or
inclusion classes. What I envision is a class with the  7 students from my
son's class and maybe 13-14 reg. ed. kids with a spec ed. teacher and a reg.
ed. teacher and an assistant for all the sped kids and the asst. for the
autistic boy. They would have all their subjects together except for those
that the sped kids need individual help with. The sped teacher would work
with the sped kids either in a sheltered area of the room, or if that
wouldn't be workable (eg my son might get too distracted) then have them
pulled out only for those subjects.
   I'm very interested in hearing from teachers or parents about specific
types of inclusion classes that have worked in the early elementary years.
   I'm also interested in any advice on ways I might make this happan in my
district. I've already spoken to the Director of Sp. Ed. and am trying to set
up a meeting with her and 2 of the other 1st grade parents to try to make
this happan for at least the year after next. But she seems resistant. Isn't
this a Federal mandate??
   I'm in NY state. Would most appreciate any responses. Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Models
Date:  95-05-17 06:51:12 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Hi!
We have a live discussion on Inclusion every Thursday at 10PM EST in the
Health and Medical Chat room at keyword Health.  There are many many teachers
and parents who attend.  There are also logs in Health/Software/Transcripts
of past meetings.  Please join us if you can. KarenSubj:  Re:Inclusion Models
Date:  95-05-17 23:09:19 EDT
From:  LTroudy

Speaking as a spec. Ed teacher I am always cautious about getting too tied
into to working with large numbers of kids in an instructional model, as I
have to meet the "regular"ed needs too ( moral obligation).  The question I
always come back to is can I first and formost meet all the needs of ALL my
special ed. kids that I have chosen to group, prior to meeting the needs of
7-8 others.  It is a difficult model to move off of paper and into reality.
We don't have homgeneous groups in our spec. ed class any more than they do
in the regular class.   Can I work with a child who has sensory motor integ.
needs with my three ADD kids, my 1 audiotry process. child and 8 regular kids
and move them to the smae palce, meeting the goals of not just the fully
included but the other spec. ed.   It's rather new to the specialists and I'm
somewhat cautious to take that precious time that I have ( maybe 2 hours a
day ) experimenting with their education.  I don't think from what I hear in
the " community" that it is reluctance, but rather it is new, not much data
on the "how too's " and the  bottom line wether a child is included or not is
the "teaming" between reg/spec. ed and their willingness to communicate and
practice! Subj:  Re:Inclusion Models
Date:  95-05-18 21:03:18 EDT
From:  SusanS29

It's not exactly federally-mandated, but where I work virtually all the
children in self-contained classrooms (unless their problems are so severe
they're in a self-contained *school*) are integrated far more than that. By
the end of the year the teachers hardly ever have any students (which is
great, because then the students get a lot of one-on-one).Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Models
Date:  95-05-23 01:09:32 EDT
From:  CGuth43409

The way my building approaches it (which is revised annually) is each "quad";
which has 4 average sized classes in an open concept form, has 1 full time
sped teacher, 4 regular ed teachers and 2-3 paras (along with 4-8 parents).
Having 8-16 staff/adults per 100-132 students makes it a lot easier for
needed 1 on 1 and total suprvision.

We all team teach with 2 regular teachers teach math, Social studies, math
and science and the other 2 regular teachers teach reading/LA in blocks. The
curricula we use is integrated and much what the reading block teachers teach
gets used in the other areas, which the repetition is great for sped
students. The teaching style we use is the constructavist perspective.
Subj:  Re:Inclusion Models
Date:  95-05-23 23:05:33 EDT
From:  DMills1083

I am looking for any articles or research on the effect of inclusion on the
education of the included child. I teach a physically handicapped student (8
years old) who the district wants to fully include next year. I am not sure
he is ready since he does not yet have an established form of communication.
We are working on finding the right assistive device and could use another
year to give intensive instruction in communication skills. Any input or
suggested readings would be appreciated.Subj:  Victory!
Date:  95-05-24 16:12:10 EDT
From:  Battaile

   I just wanted to thank everyone for the valuable information that you have
given me in my quest to get my daughter included in regular ed at our
neighborhood school.  I took one person's advice and wrote a letter to the
director of special education stating that we would be requesting regular ed
at the IEP, stating the reasons why it was appropriate, and citing the
governing federal and state laws.  The letter was firm, but not
confrontational.

    I received a call two days later from the director.  She said that she
felt that it would be appropriate for Katie to be in regular ed. and was
inviting the school principal and the resource specialist to her IEP next
month.  I know that this wouldn't have been done without the information and
encouragement you gave me to advocate for my child.
THANK YOU!!!!!        Kris BattaileSubj:  Re: Inclusion models
Date:  95-05-24 20:55:58 EDT
From:  LMCEB

I am a First grade teacher involved in a new K/1 incluson model this year.
There are three teachers and four assistants for 52 students in our class.
This year has been one of the most challenging yet rewarding years of
teaching for me.  I have watched my typical children learn to accept children
for who they are, and my special needs children become academically and
socailly engaged in a way we never thought we would see happen in a
sel-contained room.  Inclusion is definatley working for us.  We are in
Upstate-NY and yes, it is becomming a state mandate. Subj:  Help our County
Date:  95-05-24 21:15:43 EDT
From:  Steph58

I am a parent of a 5 yr. old autistic boy.  I am looking for agencies or
individuals who help to educate counties in enhancing their inclusive
programs.  Our county is interested in talking with someone like this.  We
are in the Atlanta area--Conyers, GA--Rockdale County.   Please E-mail me @
Steph58 or leave a message for me.  Thank you for your help.

Stephanie F. SmithSubj:  Re:Help our County
Date:  95-05-25 21:26:03 EDT
From:  LMCEB

Stephanie I am from Syracuse,NY and Syracuse University has tons of programs
on autism.  We have an elementary school in our district that works
exclusively with autistic children and facilitated communicaton.  the school
is all inclusive.  Call the University - Special Education Dept.  I don't
know the number but our area code is (315).  Good luck.
Subj:  Letter requesting inclusion
Date:  95-05-25 23:07:35 EDT
From:  Battaile

Here is the letter that I sent to our special education director prior to the
IEP.  She called two days later and said that my daughter would be included
next year.  It should be noted that I am not an attorney.  The legal
citations are my own interpretations and are not intended to be legal advice.
The second part of the letter is included in the next message.

Dear (special education director):

Katie's IEP is coming up next month, and we wanted to let you know that we
are requesting that Katie be placed in the regular education class at
(neighborhood) school for Fall, 1995.  The reasons that we are requesting
this placement are as follows:

1.  Katie is not being academically challenged in the segregated special
education class.

2.  Despite our requests at her last IEP, the goals written in her IEP, and
our repeated requests to all levels of the school and special education
staff, it has only been in the last month, through the efforts of (sp.ed
teacher), that Katie has been integrated into a first grade regular education
class for PE and dance.

3.  The behaviors and language exhibited by the students in the segregated
special education class are not the behaviors and language that Katie should
be modeling and have led to her acting out in inappropriate ways.

4.  The transient nature of the segregated special education class is
disruptive to Katie.  She makes friends with someone, and the next week they
are gone for often unexplained reasons.

5.  The regular education class is the least restrictive environment for
Katie.  She is not a behavior problem and would benefit from the modeling of
the behaviors of the regular education students.  She also loves to learn.
She enjoys observing others who are ahead of her in classwork and then
challenges herself to rise to that level.  She will need support from the
resource room for math, but we believe that she will rise to the appropriate
level in reading and benefit from the other regular education subjects.  The
reason that we feel that she will not need resource room support for reading
is that she has an incredible memory and is capable of learning words by
sight.  For example, in the past two weeks, she has learned 50 new words.

6.  (Neighborhood) school is our neighborhood school and Katie would like to
attend school with her sister in the Fall.  She needs to make friends in our
neighborhood.  Katie has few friends.  Her segregation in the special
education class away from our neighborhood has not fostered friendships.
Socialization is a very important part of education and Katie is a very
social person.  It is very disturbing to her and us that she has only two
neighborhood friends to invite to a birthday party.  She needs to socialize
with regular education students at our neighborhood school and develop
friendships.

7.  We feel that her education will be enhanced by attending (neighborhood)
school because of the gains that she will make socially, the behaviors and
language that she will benefit from modeling,  and the level of the material
that will be presented in the regular education classroom.  A concern might
be that she will not be able to absorb all of the material presented during
class, and will therefore fall behind.  We do not feed that this will occur.
(Mom) is a teacher and works with Katie from 3:00 to 5:00 daily to reinforce
what she is learning at school.  We have access to many computer programs
that assist in this learning process.  Also, Katie loves to learn and enjoys
spending this additional time each day to do her homework, learn new words,
and play math games.  We understand the time commitment involved in educating
Katie and are more than willing to put in this time.  (Mom) only works for
five hours on Fridays and is free to support Katie's education at all other
times.

Continued in next message.Subj:  Letter continued
Date:  95-05-25 23:11:08 EDT
From:  Battaile

Letter continued from previous posting.  Once again, I am not an attorney and
this is not intended to provide legal advice.

Title 20, Section 1412, of the United States Code states that to the maximum
extent appropriate, children with disabilities are to be educated with
children who are not disabled, and that special classes, separate schooling,
or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational
environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability is such
that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and
services cannot be achieved satisfactorily.

In Oberti v. Board of Education (1992) 789 F. Supp. 1322, 1327, the court
stated that school districts "must carefully examine the educational
benefits, both academic and nonacademic, available to a child with a
disability in a regular classroom.  Among the factors to be considered are
the advantages derived from modeling the behavior and language of children
without disabilities".

Oberti, Supra at 1327, cites passages from Board of Education, Sacramento
City Unified School District v. Holland (E.D. Cal. 1992) 786 F. Supp. 874, in
stating that in considering inclusion with the regular education class, "the
preference or presumption in favor of inclusion will not be rebutted unless
the school district shows either that the child's disabilities are so severe
that he or she will receive little or no benefit from inclusion; that he or
she is 'so disruptive as to significantly impair the education of other
children' in the class; or that the cost of providing an inclusive education
'will significantly affect other children in the district.'"

For all of these reasons, we believe that it is in the best interests of
Katie's education that she be placed in regular education at (neighborhood)
school with support from the resource room.  We would like to know what your
views are on this request prior to the IEP so that we can, together, develop
the best education plan for Katie.

Sincerely,
MOM and DAD

CC:
Principal
Spec. Ed Teacher
Regional Center education specialist
Social WorkerSubj:  Re:Help our County
Date:  95-05-27 21:54:05 EDT
From:  Steph58

Thanks for your help LMCEB!Subj:  Re:Letter continued
Date:  95-05-31 06:48:12 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Wonderful! Great letter, great reasons, great for Katy!
All the best to you, and if you trip on any stones along the path, come on in
Thursday and tell us about them.  We'll make gravel for you.
Go Katy!
karenSubj:  Inclusion/High School
Date:  95-06-04 01:30:11 EDT
From:  JHeerema

We have a 16 year-old daughter who is MMH who was placed in an inclusion
program for the first time 2 years ago in 8th grade.   Prior to this she had
been taught in a self-contained special ed class room.  She was
"mainstreamed" only for P.E. and chorus.  After she was placed in the
inclusion program she blossomed, and we found out for the first time that she
was gifted in her understanding of history and English literature.
Unfortunately, the only inclusion our school system had was in grades 1-8,
there was nothing at the high school level.  When she entered high school 2
years ago we and another family, who has a boy with Down's Syndrome,
inisisted on our children being included in the regular classes.  We found
the high school administration and regular ed teachers willing to give it a
try, but unfortunately the special ed teacher was reluctant to try it and is
setting up the program to fail.  Is there anyone out there who has inclusion
in their high school who can give us some advice?  We are being told by our
school system that we are pioneers in inclusion at this level because they
don't know of any place where this is being done.  I know we can't be the
only ones out there. Time is running out for us because our children will be
juniors next year and we know we have to start planning for transition, but
our daughter just loves academics and for the first time in her life feels
like she belongs to the human race.  If you have any advice to give it will
be greatly appreciated.  You can also E-mail me.  Subj:  Re:Inclusion/High
School respons
Date:  95-06-06 19:55:20 EDT
From:  BuffyPC

I have had tremendous success with the peer tutor concept at the high school
level.  I have a semi-ind. learner classroom and out of a 7 hour school day,
have my MMR students within my special ed. class for only 3 hours.  There
DOES get to be a time when COMMUNITY INCLUSION via work sites/stations for
learning/exposure and experiences ARE much more appropriate than continued
ACADEMIC INCLUSION ONLY!  The regular ed. teachers, "so-called regular ed.
students" and my "so-called special ed students", including myself ALL
benefit from inclusion.  As you have experienced, there are MANY differences
in how inclusion fits/works at the high school level versus elem. or middle
school.  I'd love to discuss with you some specifics on trying new approaches
to making the appropriate style of inclusion for your loved one.
Subj:  Moved from another folder
Date:  95-06-08 23:42:12 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Subj:  Inclusion is best...for SOME          95-06-08 22:08:02 EDT
From:  Teachcable

   The main and most important thing to remember and even just consider is
that inclusion should be done on an individual basis.  You cannot make a
blanket decision for an entire population of special needs students. After
being forced into full and complete inclusion with 23 students, I can say
that I see  many benefits for many of the students, both regular ed and
special ed.      But my concern is for those few who are not benefitting.
How do I get the administration to see that these students need more???


                                                    Help!
                                                 Teachcable in NYSubj:  Moved
from another folder
Date:  95-06-08 23:45:09 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Subj:  Re:Inclusion is best...for SOME       95-06-08 23:37:41 EDT
From:  USAisNo1

I would inform the parents of what you see and give suggestions to the
parents on how their child might be better educated.Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Models
Date:  95-06-15 15:42:24 EDT
From:  Orrie 28

To : DMills1083
From: Orrie28
I have a 10 year old son who is communication hanficapped, he can speak in
2-3 sentence words, his receptive language is very good. Don't wait till the
child is "ready" before you include him, you will wait forever. The prinicple
behind inclusion is to provide the proper supports for the child in the
classroom. There are many good augmentative communication systems available.
A good resource for information on inclusion is the Pau H. Brookes Publishing
Co. in Baltimore, MD. You can get their toll free number and request a
catalong. With the proper supports this child can develop wonderful
friendships, kids at that age are very accepting. The presence of a group of
children providing appropriate role models also serve as a wonderful aid in
teaching  communication skills. I wish you the best of luck.Subj:
Re:Inclusion Models
Date:  95-06-15 20:37:23 EDT
From:  CGuth43409

Also contact Don Johnston Inc. at DJDE here on AOL. They are very good at
assisting people with disabilities.Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-06-16 21:34:49 EDT
From:  BillPoole

I'm new to AOL and am trying to post a message to gain information on
successful inclusion models for middle school LD students (mild to severe).
I'm responsible for implementing an inclusion model this fall.  Any and all
input would be appreciated.  Thanks.  MarieSubj:  Moved from another folder
Date:  95-06-19 09:34:22 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Subj:  Full inclusion                        95-06-18 21:42:14 EDT
From:  Marcia1009
Posted on: America Online

It is not for everyone.  We have to remember that we must meet individual
needs.  I believe in inclusion but not for everyone.  Besides support, you
need planning time, materials, commitment, and belief in the concept of
inclusion.  We have included a TMI youngster in our elementary school and it
has worked beautifully and he has made great gains.  All depends on the
individual and their needs.Subj:  Moved from another folder
Date:  95-06-19 09:35:40 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Subj:  Inclusion in IEP?                     95-06-19 01:33:29 EDT
From:  Elana
Posted on: America Online

Our district is really pushing for inclusion of students in SDC. It is not
stated in the IEP that these students are to have science in the regular ed
setting. The district wants students in reg ed with the sp ed teacher or
aide. There is no time for planning. We, SDC,  have to change our
individualized schedule to meet the reg ed schedule. It appears that the SDC
is changing to a Resource Room format. If these students could be in for
science then they would be in a Resource Room program, not a SDC. I feel that
SDC students should be assessed individually for successful placement in reg
ed subject areas. It is not mandated that SDC students be in reg ed?? Please
give me your opinions, your answers, your experiences.
Thanks....ElanaSubj:  Moved from another folder
Date:  95-06-19 09:36:09 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Subj:  Not all                               95-06-19 08:47:22 EDT
From:  Mitzicar
Posted on: America Online

Many students with learning disabilities are unable to benefit from
instruction in the regular classroom. They need a smaller pupil-teacher
ratio, more structure, specialized teaching strategies and methods in order
to benefit from education.Subj:  Preparing the Reg. Ed School
Date:  95-06-20 16:25:34 EDT
From:  Battaile

     Well, we were successful in getting our daughter included into regular
education for next year.  The IEP went very well as we had forewarned
everyone involved by letter pre IEP that this is what was appropriate for our
daughter.  Also, citing the appropriate law didn't hurt.
     I mistakenly thought that we had cleared the last hurdle until my
daughter and I visited the regular ed (our neighborhood) school.  Katie is
eight years old, will be held back into the second grade, and will be the
first child included at this school.  The reception that my daughter received
from the children was incredible.  They were more than wonderful to her.  The
reception that I received from the principal and the resource specialist was
just the opposite.  The principal wanted Katie in resource 49% of the day
despite her IEP, wanted to know if I would be home during the day in case
Katie had an "episode", and kept stressing her low IQ.  Luckily this
principal (sadly a former special education director) is retiring this week.
I am going to meet with the new principal ASAP.  The resouce specialist was
another problem.  She thinks that she is going to be responsible for Katie's
education.  I've tried to tell these people that we want her with the regular
ed as much as possible for the language and behavior modeling.  I've also
told them that we do not expect Katie to come up to grade level, we just
expect her to meet her IEP goals.
     My question is:   How do we introduce inclusion to the new principal,
the resource specialist, and the second grade teacher???  They will have in
service training, but after school starts in the fall.  What can I do before
school starts to calm them all down??    Any suggestions that you could give
would be helpful.   Kris BattaileSubj:  Re:Preparing the Reg. Ed School
Date:  95-06-20 17:53:23 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Kris,
Its an age old question.  I have always found it helpful to put professionals
at ease by explaining to them that your daughter didnt come with a "how-to"
book, and you have made mistakes too.  That is how we learn.  It is okay to
try new ideas which you have discussed and to fail in small attempts.
Inclusion is new for everyone.  Inclusion is vague in some of its details.
What is important is that your child's INDIVIDUAL needs be met and addressed
within the least restrictive environment.  Tell teachers and administration
that you are always available to assist them in knowing what you find to be
successful for your daughter.  You have a phone line and no problems with
them using it whenever they need to.  After all, who has more experience with
your child than you do?
I hope this is helpful.  Karen
Subj:  Inclusion Chat
Date:  95-06-20 17:54:23 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Just a reminder that the weekly Chat is Thursday nights at 10PM EST in the
Health and Medical Chat room.  Thanks to Sue for allowing me to post this in
the education folders.  KarenSubj:  Re:Inclusion Chat
Date:  95-06-20 18:05:20 EDT
From:  SusanS29

Aw, ya beat me to it, Karen!

Please continue to post announcements about your chats. They're important,
and we need to get the word out!

SusanS29-HostSubj:  Re:Moved from another folder
Date:  95-06-20 22:28:21 EDT
From:  LMCEB

I'm sorry you feel that way.  In our inclusion class our children do have the
opportunity to work in large, small and one-to-one groups.  Also, my children
with learning disabilities have made some of the biggest academic gains this
year.  If the teacher wants inclusion to work and believes that all children
can learn, then they will.  Everyone learns in their own way, no matter what
you do every child will take something away from it. Subj:  Re:Moved from
another folder
Date:  95-06-21 18:42:06 EDT
From:  SusanS29

"In our inclusion class our children do have the opportunity to work in
large, small and one-to-one groups.  Also, my children with learning
disabilities have made some of the biggest academic gains this year."

I was doing "inclusion" before the word was coined (early seventies) and we
*definitely* found that there *clearly* were times when the LD (also BD)
students were better off out of the classroom for a little time. Sometimes it
was because the best method for that student would be terribly distracting
(and I refused to compromise on methods); sometimes it was because the
student was embarrassed by remaining in the classroom for some things; and
sometimes it was because we *needed* the work to be private. Some creative
solutions to playground problems lie in that category. If the tormentor had
been aware of the new skills the tormented child was learning, it wouldn't
have worked.Subj:  Inclusion
Date:  95-06-29 07:38:11 EDT
From:  ChatLap

Kris, My son was also the first to be included in his school with as severe
deficits as he has.  The really major hurdle, I think, is the one you've
already passed:  getting it into the IEP.  Still, I've worried at the
beginning of every new school year that the teachers working w/ him will
disagree w/ the placement.  No one now, however, questions the
appropriateness of the placement; they might not always like it, but the
gains he's made since being included are extraordinary and indisputable.  If
the resource teacher again suggests your daughter be taken out of the class
more than you like, listen to her as if she were making an excellent point,
tell her that you can understand her views, then casually point out that as
parent you still would prefer to try out full inclusion, and that, of course,
since it is in the IEP, it would be illegal to do otherwise.

As for dealing with them afterwards, I think Karen is right on the mark:
kids don't come with instructions, we all just do the best we can.  One point
I've had to make to the reg. ed. teachers new to inclusion is that neither my
son nor they have failed in any way if my son is not getting 100% of the
material, that we're aiming for as much progress as possible, not miracles.
Good luck, PamSubj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-06-29 18:57:48 EDT
From:  SusanS29

"One point I've had to make to the reg. ed. teachers new to inclusion is that
neither my son nor they have failed in any way if my son is not getting 100%
of the material, that we're aiming for as much progress as possible, not
miracles."

I think you're very wise. It's a real "head adjustment" for teachers: they
are used to fighting, scrambling -- doing everything they can to make sure
every child in their room masters the material presented, including children
with difficulties such as learning disabilities.

To have a child included in their classroom where such a goal is viewed as
unrealistic and maybe even inapropriate can be quite a shock, and some
teachers have a lot of trouble with it. Those are *always* good teachers and
worth working with on the concept.Subj:  Inclusion
Date:  95-06-30 14:02:40 EDT
From:  ChatLap

Susan, I agree wholeheartedly that those teachers who attempt to make every
child in the class master the material completely are the best!  I would much
prefer my children be in a class with such a teacher than one who has little
expectations for them.  My son had one just like that and my son learned
volumes from her.  Unfortunately, his report cards did not reflect this
progress; since he did not master the material his grades were atrocious.  I
told her that while he hadn't gotten all she'd tried to teach him, his
progress warranted better grades; I was afraid his seeing such low grades
after working so hard would keep him from continuing to work as hard.  It was
then that I suggested that no one is a failure who has tried his best,
teacher or student.

Later in the year we both attended the same inclusion seminar, designed for
teachers, where they said just that.  She came up to me afterwards and said
that that was the one thing she had had a really hard time with, having my
son in her class.  She really wanted him to do just as well as all the
others.  I certainly don't think of that as a fault!  But I was, and am,
concerned by those teachers who don't want children w/ spec needs in their
class because they can't master the full curriculum.  Generally speaking, I
find if they can know up-front that not always mastering the material is OK,
they are more accepting.  (In the meantime, though, I also let them know I'll
do my damndest on the homefront to see that he accomplishes as much as
possible of it!  That helps a great deal too!)  PamSubj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-06-30 18:28:20 EDT
From:  SusanS29

There's an easy solution to the grade problem.

You give the child grades that will encourage him to continue to do the best
he can do.

Then you make a note on the grade that the student is working below grade
level. That way only someone with a true attitude problem would have a
problem with it, and only someone with a *severe* reading comprehension
problem would miss the point. The child gets credit for his efforts, but the
report card isn't misleading.

Any teacher who objects to this needs to be "reasoned with."Subj:
Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-07-01 12:30:21 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Susan,
That is the very grading system we use.  We thought about pass / fail for a
while, but then the teachers thought Dan would rather get grades like
everyone else.  Now his thoughtful Resource room reading teacher gives him a
chart and a calculator and part of his math grade is based on his calculating
his own reading grade based on his scores.  so creative!
KarenSubj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-07-01 16:48:28 EDT
From:  LTroudy

The grading system that I use with all of our spec. ed students and many of
the tudents that have gone through our SSt ( Student Study Team ) is a grade
that is mark with a *.  The *  at the bottom of the page states "  This child
was graded for effort and participation and is achieving below grade level.
Most of my students that need this are doing outstanding work.  This allows
the teacher - right from the beginning- to alter the grades.  I do have some
students however that do truly earn the "D" or the "F" because they do not
participate or complete homework etc.   We have also developed a form that
the parents sign that indicates that they are aware of this grading policy.
This form is kept in the cum along with the final report card copies.   We
have strongly encouraged that the only students that are graded this way are
students that have gone to SST.  This ensures that this had been agreed upon
and documented as a form of intervention and also let's the parent know that
we are concerned not only with grades but appreciate their efforts to
maintain homework and study skills with grading that will support self
esteem.   This has really freed the regular class teacher from the pressure
of grading and continues the concept we in special ed try to foster , not my
child, not your child, but  OUR child.  It's a team effort.   It has been
very successful . Subj:  Re:Inclusion
Date:  95-07-02 01:02:24 EDT
From:  SusanS29

"I do have some students however that do truly earn the "D" or the "F"
because they do not participate or complete homework etc..."

Right. That's the beauty of grading on what they do... you can *still* reward
for effort and progress. Only thing is I think teachers have to be *very*
careful to make sure the student "isn't trying." It's pretty unusual for
students below fifth grade to really "not try" when the work is on their
instructional level, and often kids get labeled as "not trying" unfairly --
their abilities have been over-estimated. No doubt D's and F's are sometimes
deserved. Also A's... some teachers in my school had a small cow when I gave
one of my students an A in language, below grade level. however her effort
and progress were outstanding. It's probably the only A the kid will ever
earn, and there were *definitely* those ready to begrudge it.Subj:
Re:Inclusion/grading
Date:  95-07-02 15:08:39 EDT
From:  LTroudy

I am a real advocate of contracts.  These are done outside of the IEP, though
using contracts to promote specific behaviors can be written, I usallu do it
in the area of life goals/prevocational.  This is how we as a team can agree
( most importantly the child ) to set a plan.  I try to have the child write
as much of it as possible because they are the ones who will live by it.
This is how I assess effort.  Itry not to make it an emotional objective but
rather " I agree to do these things...".  It is VERY important to meet
frequently to conference regarding the status of these contracts.  Failure is
often  noted  to late.  Children with poor organizational skills can only
look at the mountain one step at a time.  The first contracts need to be easy
with guaranteed success.  This is a wonderful way for the parent to interact
positively with the child as well.     Most all of my  rewards are within my
class, such as inviting a student to our room on a Friday to play a game.
Opening the doors of our world to the rest of the school has been the best
reward for my kids.     Grading has so much flexibility if we do ! Subj:
Re:full inclusion
Date:  95-07-04 18:35:05 EDT
From:  DAYZER

I am currently teaching special ed., which is out of field for me.
What is the difference between full inclusion and a resource room.

                                                thanks,

                                                        brenda
Subj:  Re:full inclusion
Date:  95-07-07 19:23:58 EDT
From:  Jrpahomegv

My husband and I will be attending a staffing for our son on Monday--this is
our second staffing for high school.  He is LD, and has been in a
self-contained program for the last five years.  We feel the placement they
are offering is inappropriate--due to the fact that he is certainly capable
of  aspiring to a college education, and the classes they have lined up for
him simply teach life skills, none are college prep.  We are planning on
requesting a full inclusion program for him--he has been very successfully
mainstreamed in a couple of classes for the last four years--social studies
being the best, and we feel he could succeed in the mainstream with some real
support.  We will be facing 12 "experts" at this meeting, and need some
information with real teeth--as our high school district has no inclusion
policy, and never offered it to us as an alternative.  Is inclusion legally
considered the least restrictive environment?  We've been to due process
once, and we're not afraid of it.  But, if we had some really persuasive
information that we could use right away, we might be able to avoid all of
that conflict.
Thanks,
JrpSubj:  High school inclusion
Date:  95-07-08 21:52:16 EDT
From:  Battaile

Jrpahomegv:

See my posting dated 5/25/95 for laws and cases supporting inclusion
(especially the second part of the letter).  Hope that this helps.Subj:
Re:High school inclusion
Date:  95-07-09 11:35:07 EDT
From:  Jrpahomegv

Battaile

Thank you for directing me to your well-written, thoughtful letter.
The passages regarding education law and the court's interpretation will be
very helpful.
We have already suffered through the social isolation of being bussed to a
school an hour away for a self-contained class, and then the negative
experience of being in a self-contained classroom for junior high within our
base school.
Our current problem is getting our son placed in high school classes that are
college prep. He is capable and cooperative--we just need to help them
understand that they really need to address HIS goals.
Thanks again,  and I hope Katie is happy and succeeding more and more every
day---but with such concerned and loving parents, how can she go wrong?
Thanks,
Jrp
Subj:  Re:High school inclusion
Date:  95-07-16 14:19:33 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

Please let us all know how the meeting went.  Im one of those earn you way
out type people and I hate to see implications that any child has to earn
their way IN.  All the best! KarenSubj:  Re:full inclusion
Date:  95-07-27 00:21:11 EDT
From:  CarolLeeJB

If your son is classified as having a learning disability alone, then why is
your son in a self-contained classroom?  Children with this category are also
of normal intelligence and may even be gifted in areas...I just dont
understand this situation...would you explain the area that he has his
problem
[e-mail]:  Subj:  Exhausted!!! Date:  95-07
Date:  95-07-29 00:17:44 EDT
From:  JudiLee222

Subj:  Exhausted!!!
Date:  95-07-23 00:51:47 EDT
From:  Keller222

      After having taught regular and special ed. for a number of years, and
after having become friends with parents of many mentally and physically
challenged children, I think I'm experiencing burn-out as a teacher.  I never
thought I would say that because I absolutely love children and teaching!  I
also like relating to parents and truly empathize with their problems.  This
year is becoming particularly difficult, however, because no matter how hard
I try, I can see problems developing which I don't know how to handle.  This
is my first year in a regular classroom with a fully-included child.  The
child comes with a 3-hour aide who knows nothing about SH children, a mother
who wants to be in the classroom and is oblivious to my need to teach the
other 27 children, a father who is a psychologist who says that he "knows all
about me," a family attorney who has threatened to sue the district if the
child isn't fully included in everything, and a principal and district who
are backing them wholeheartedly and watching to see that I "do everything
right."    As much as I like the child, the mother, the father, the
principal, my district, and teaching, I'm seriously considering "moving on"
because there is simply too much stress in the situation.  I find myself
spending too much time with the fully-included child--to the detriment of the
other children.  I'm also spending too much time with the aide, trying to
train her, and keep her from feeling like a failure because the child doesn't
like her.  Also, I'm spending too much time documenting everything--in case
of a lawsuit!!!  Hopefully the stress will decrease as the parents get to
really know me and realize that I will always try to do my best for their
child.  In the meantime, I'm exhausted trying to please everybody!!
     Anyone else having problems like this?  I would really like to hear from
people (teachers/parents) in similar situations. What can relieve this
situation?!!!
  Subj:  Re:Subj:  Exhausted!!! Date:  95
Date:  95-07-30 17:05:15 EDT
From:  KarenL2888

JudiLee,
I have responded directly to Keller222 via Email.  I hope I have been of some
help to her.  Thanks for alerting us! Karen